Lot of Camper abuser civs have very good farm transitions.
A great idea across the board way to nerf ALL farms is to make it take 20s to build one. that will quickly add up for civs that are spamming farms out the gate; Also it will make raiding farms viable late game since that’s an additional 20s per farm that needs to be replaced!
20-25s is legit amount of time it should take for an INFINITE resource??
Now I’m thinking about it. I dare say 30s per farm is actually not extreme with an INFINITE and often SAFE and relatively CHEAP source of food?? 75wood for a infinite source that gathers as the same rate as sheep (standard source of food), nevermind the civs that get a cost discount and or bonus to resources gathered???
limit of 300 food per farm and with technological improvement castle 500 and 750 age4, Every time the food runs out again pay 75 more for wood new farm
So what does this mean for civilizations who have infinite food through other means? Malian cattle ranch, ottoman feudal landmark, mongol sheep pastures, abbasid trade, french trade…
You fundamentally change the game by making their food limited. This request is way too much.
I think fish are equivalent to things like deer and boar, though that’s more for shore fish than deep fish. For deep fish, it’s typically on maps where space is limited, so having them refresh (keep in mind it is fairly slow) allows a player to sustain food collection. Deep fish effectively take the place of a farming transition.
All of that in mind, fishing spots cannot be walled off and cannot have defensive emplacements around them. Fishing is far more vulnerable than farms because of that alone.
On farms, it requires large amount of resources to establish farming for 20+ villagers, and is the slowest food gathering source (before upgrades).
Can’t really speak for lengthening construction time on farms. Short term it makes farms more vulnerable (as well as making the villager constructing them less valuable for the time they are building it), but long term it is roughly the same. That change doesn’t seem nearly as unreasonable as making farms a limited food source. I could go in depth on how poorly it would effect the game, but I don’t think that’s reasonable considering that wasn’t OPs request.
Nobody at a high level wants to micro management reseeding farms, if you like reseeding i invite you to eat mali cows indefinitely throughout a 40+ min game…
The idea of prolonging the the construction time on farms is in fact to make the return on investment take longer and give an advantage to natural resources that do NOT require much investment resources per se but DO REQUIRE walking time and tend to be more suspectible to idle gathering time due to raid exposure.
Another idea which is a bit more involved is to have farms cost much much more if created BEFORE castle Age. Like 125w standard price per farm but once you hit castle you automatically get a discount to make farms fo 75w standard.
Anything that can counter balance the cheap, gathering efficient, safe and INFINITE source of food that some civs are taking advantage of in DARK AGE???
I think of one way, is to change the cost of farm based on how many farms we have built like cisterns from byzantines.
Like for English we can make the first farm 50% discount and second farm 49% discount, then 48% discount … until the 50th farm and above the same cost. Same for abbasid.
For HRE the chapel has already received a nerf so we will see about it.
Farm already received a nerf in PUP. I dont think It needs any other nerf. Maybe specific civ nerf like they did with HRE chapel, but not for all Civs.
Anything that simulates a 2Tc should not be cheap, a dock should cost at least half of a Tc. This system only makes civilizations viable with a good early game, especially on hybrid maps.
The pup food upgrades nerfs were targeted at late 10k+ stockpile.
My idea behind the farm nerf is to nerf the cheap and safe infinite food that abuser civs take advantage of as early as Dark Age.
Had it been just 1 or 2 civs with this crazy safe food gimmicks? Maybe not a big deal? But we have Eng, HRE, Ootd, Byz, Abbasid, and Malian that can choose to never leave their base for food?? Pair with 4k in base gold and 2 massive woodlines, makes for a very boring game.
I believe no matter the civ both teams should always be forced to play the map.
I understand now. I think it would be enough to increase the farm cost for these civs in the feudal era. Or reconfigure the bonus they have to be progressive as they advance in era.
Also with new nerfs to food gathering techs farm civs even got stronger because their bonus didnt get nerfed.For example difference before was %80 something now its %100 bonus difference.