Nerfing melee armor on palisade walls

[AlightJewel1130]

Orrrr instead of doing an overkill just consider what OP has stated.

[TougherTrack508]

@AlightJewel1130

If you increase their cost then “bad” maps immediately become “worse”.
On the other hand if you make each palisade wall less durable there is less variance if you have a good or bad generation because walls on both maps could be broken into having enough units.

I hope that’s understandable.

So that’s the reasoning why you shouldn’t increase the cost but decrease the durability of palisade walls.

Sorry I don’t understand this. Are you saying you don’t want people to be able to wall their whole base?

[AlightJewel1130]

Let me reiterate it while being more explicit.
What I’m saying here:

@AlightJewel1130

If you increase their cost then “bad” maps immediately become “worse”.
On the other hand if you make each palisade wall less durable there is less variance if you have a good or bad generation because walls on both maps could be broken into having enough units.

is that if you have an each wall piece more expensive then if you have a “bad” map where you need to wall a lot you need to put more of these pieces - pay more for your wall. That means that for the same effect of having let’s say 1 layer palisade wall you pay more on open maps in total. So it scales up. By adding 30% single palisade wall cost increase you add 30% of total cost of the whole wall. So if you get a bad map with having to make let’s say 70 pieces of palisade on the whole wall (with houses and other buildings in between) it doesn’t add a constant cost, it multiplies the cost. So with the current cost of 2W per wall you would pay 140 W + idle time of your vills making 70 pieces of wall. If you increase the cost by 2W now suddenly you have to pay 280 W + same idle time, which means you already have 2 farms less or almost one military building less. And you pay for the same effect that enemy on much closer map gets for lets say 1/3 of the cost you paid. If we leave the cost of walls small then the difference of resource spent for entire wall is not that huge between players. With each additional wood per piece the overall cost of walling scirockets.

So what I’m arguing is that making the melee armor smaller doesn’t increase the burden of having a worse map (by worse I mean the map that requires more walling) but instead makes it easier breakable for both players, no matter if you have a long or short wall.

Was this more insightful? @TougherTrack508

[TougherTrack508]

Yes, I understand now you want walling to be cheap, so that players with bad maps can still full-wall their base. But you still want to nerf walling…

But, if palisades were any weaker I’d have to use double layers, effectively doubling the cost of walling. Maybe other people with quicker fingers wouldn’t have to, but

“it’s possible to break through single-layer walls” --> “people must doublewall”

If your reform has any effect at all, people must doublewall.

Double walling is ugly, has bad UI, and doesn’t work well when you’re walling a small area around a wood camp / mining camp.

In short, I don’t think making palisades more fragile would have the desired effect.

[AlightJewel1130]

Interesting. New double walling meta? - It would make the cost double though.
Maybe the meta would shift this direction, maybe unexpectedly the other way. Maybe people would play more aggressively. Maybe there would always be a one vill tower forward. Maybe archers would always need to be there. Maybe people would make more maa.
Social consciousness is certainly an fascinating concept. Even when it comes to something like developing a meta in the game. It’s not a single person developing the general meta, but a group of individuals each providing their own input, each person with different ideas each learning from one another, developing, influencing and sharing their understanding.

I think it’s hard to predict without experiencing it.