Whats your thoughts on nest of bees? I’m thinking their pretty over powered and could use some slowing down on the recharge rate.
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it’s fine, no changes needed 
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Nest of bee can cause a lotta damages but only when its arrows did hit the target, it will be powerful when fire on a large group of troop. However when targeting a small group of enemy, nest of bee’s damage will be very poor.
In my opinion, it is just fine. I am not meaning this topic is senseless, but we do need a plan which is more considerate if you suggest to nerf nest of bee in the late of the game.
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NoB is basically worse version of mangonel. What do you want to nerf ?
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Nest of Bees perform much better than mangonel.
Each arrow fired (8 arrows) got aoe damage. in simple words, it covers more area than mangonel and makes it much better against lighter units.
Mangonels are on the other hand have higher damage (+2) and only 3 rocks are thrown. It performs better against higher armoured units.
Overall, Nest of Bees is better for larger-scale battles against stacked units as it would deal more damage.
Some people say it is bugged and all arrows won’t fire as soon as the targeted target dies. But really such thing happens in low elo players. Usually, high elo players would target higher hp targets to get the best out of it. And really, no one trains it from siege workshop as the Chinese have “Clocktower” that gives 50%HP and supervise it with an imperial supervisor. That allows them to train faster and tankier sieges that would dwarf enemy mangonels.
Simple math
Nest of bees (full damage per fired volley of arrows)
8 * 10=80
Mangonel (full damage per shot)
3 * 12= 36
Cost
Nest of Bees
300 Gold and 300 Wood
Mangonels
400 Wood and 200 gold
Similar
Both got 8 pierce armour
Some bonuses
Mangonels deal +24 bonus damage to buildings
Nest of bees (none)
Advantages
Nest of Bees
5.5 attack speed
0.93 movement speed
Can be trained from “Clocktower” 300HP Nest of Bees (instead of 200HP) - simultaneously can be supervised to be trained faster.
Mangonel
9 range
Disadvantages
Mangonel
6.75 attack speed
0.88 movement speed
Nest of Bees
Cannot fire on water
8 range
Don’t mind these players as they are too Biased! (Chinese main civ players)
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It is bugged, when it works, it is stupidly overpowered.
When it doesn’t work, a lot of arrows just misfired or stop firing for no reason it is trash.
Clocktower buff & Supervise basically making all Chinese siege units broken, have you ever seen a Chinese player building a normal siege workshop? It is never needed.
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Clocktower nest of bees definitely need a massive hp nerf.
Their damage paired with their hp is insane.
If you make enough springalds to counter them, you’ll have no ressources anymore for an army early age3.
can anyone explain why mangonel received a nerf but nest of bees are just ignored in the past?
Nob are better than mangonel at 3+ and Op at 5 plus. And I’m NOT talking clocktower siege.
They still die (and are outranged by) springalds and culverins in 2 hits (3 to springalds after siegeworks). Combined with being shorter ranged than mangonels (and other siege), they are not that troublesome to take care of.
OG Chinese NoB are mostly so strong because their springalds are really good meaning they can actually protect them well, they aren’t anything crazy if you can’t win the siege war.
The main strength of NoB vs Mangonels is they don’t have part of the damage being only vs ranged units so they are better vs infantry and to an extent cavalry. They still die easily to anti-siege.
You can’t dodge Nobs the way you dodge mangos. NOBs nebulous spread also means its more efficient in damage distribution. Next the plus 1 range mango isn’t impactful.
Also you appear to be glossing over how HUGE it is NOBs does a flat 10 splash dmg with 8 rockets compared to the 12 (18 on range units) splash dmg with 3 tightly fix boulders of a mango.
I’m not saying they aren’t good at killing units. In particular they are much better than mangos at killing non-archers and somewhat better at killing archers. I just don’t think they are OP because they are still vulnerable to springalds/culverins. The reduced range makes that even more the case even if they have slightly more movespeed.
Clocktower nest of bees are definitely INSANE now with the springald nerf…
They are faster than mangos, have more aoe dps, have sick hp from clocktower and springalds struggle to kill them.
How is Russia that high? I dont even see anyone play them. Is that why?
As far as I know the Nest of Bees have always been powerful. Another thing is that the latest modifications to the siege have highlighted more the role of the mangonels and NoBs in the game, especially when they were well amassed.
But hey: The Nest of Bees are the unique unit of China, of course they must be powerful. It is the same as the English Longbow Archer, it shouldn’t be nerfed, because it is already a classic.
Another thing is that Springald are very weak now as counters of siege units.
As one user suggested, the Springald and Culverins need some Percentage Resistance against Siege Damage so that they don’t get destroyed in one hit by Bombards or Great Bombards, or in this case, amassed Nest of Bees.
I hate all siege. However the ones i currently hate the LEAST ARE:
standard rams
Byz rams
All trebs to include the unique mongol pawpaw??
Bombards (JUST THE STANDARD ONES and French’s)
AND that’s it!!! Everything else to me is too cheaply masses and highly effective. I would like to see all the siege NOT mentioned get a price and train time increase to slow down the game devolving into a siegefest and makes the remass into siegefest less a thing.
I am okay if JUST the dps of mangos and NOBs were to increase slightly. Increasing their splash zones.
Example of cost and train time increases. (No blacksmith training speed applied)
Mango 500w 350g 90s
NOBs 400w 450g 90s
Springalds 350w 300g 60s
Great bombard 600w 900g 120s
All in field build times should increase proportionally.
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