It costs 400 food 200 gold
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Castle Age boyars are a viable option. 1 Castle Boyar production needs the exact same resources as 2 Stable Knight production and gives the same number of units. While being 0.05 tiles slower, the Boyar is better than Knights in every way and you also get to research Elite Boyar upgrade quickly (if you have the resources).
The Boyar is basically an early Imp (without any BS Imp upgrades) Teuton Cavalier, which is definitely one of the strongest units, while also having access to Husbandry.
2 Likes
Guys we are missing the most important buff. CloudAct has been banned.
7 Likes
Very cheaper side then. Castle age Boyar will be viable then.
Honestly thatās a good sign.
Okay donāt need to bring that up. Letās just stay on topic.
DauT was spamming Boyars from 10 Castles and I loved what I was seeing. Slavs are little bit ignored nowadays. This buff might change them.
5 Likes
Read my post, I even said that the change would be ok for 1vs1 as the civ is right now, with their current tech tree and all.
However, Iām also saying the buff is technically stronger than old indians for TGs.
And while the game isnāt balanced around TGs, here is the thing: in 1vs1, youād usually want to use trebs over rams to pressure your opponent. Trebs donāt need upgrades and can be trained as soon as imperial hits, sure, as long as you have a castle (something easier with this buff). Trebs buy you a lot of time and food over rams and the upgrades. Plus in the scenario where you are already breaking in, rams are usually just support to clear buildings. 1vs1 matches usually end before you have to invest 1000f on the upgrade if your first treb push was successful. And slavs have good cavalry and cheap heavy scorpions to make that happen. I would not like to lose siege engineers. At all.
On the other hand, in TGs: the situation is completely opposite. Matches are a lot longer, post imperial guaranteed, trade, etc. There are many factors, enemies can help each other, etc. And I can see why siege rams are more important in TGs. Definitely as good as trebs or even better because itās easier to protect them with the team. But thatās the point of my proposed nerf. To make them weaker in team games without making them lose key stuff like cavalry armor or similar for 1vs1.
Old indians got a nerf for less. Or at least less of what the possibilities this buff seems to bring for TGs so far.
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Iām a little wary about some of the update and some of the new civs, though I want to wait for a little before being too harsh.
I have to admit that Iām not a huge fan of anti melee armor bonuses. lt seems like it can make for extremely unbalanced civ match ups.
You forget that TGs feature cavalry from enemy too, so siege rams may die before fulfilling their job.
Ok. Then maybe Iām wrong about siege rams. Then what would be a reasonable nerf for TGs?
I also proposed another option removing masonry, but meh.
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well actually slavs were pretty average in performances and considered solid and fine by many if not most, as well as saracens, and then both received substantial buffs.
not saying it is not a good thing, but the same treatment could be made for other civs that are actually performing worse than those, which iām not seeying atm
Maybe we should wait and see a bit before proposing nerfs?
Like, the buff isnāt even applied yet, and youāre already calling for nerfs.
Geez.
2 Likes
I know where your are coming from, and itās fair.
But this situation is predictable. So far Iāve only complained 3 times before the changes went live: the cuman wood discount, the vikings losing TR, and now 390 stone slav castles.
I said the cuman wood discount should be nerfed to only affect 1 building or just reduce the wood discount. About vikings, I complained about the nerf being aimed towards their arbs and not their eco; losing that opportunity. And now Iām not calling a nerf about the new tech itself, which I think is fine for 1vs1 and Iām very happy about it, but all Iām saying is that is going to be too strong for TGs. And Iām predicting itās going to get the civ nerf somewhere else.
For example, the stone-wood effect could go down to 25 or 33% for all we know and not get them nerfed somewhere else; and itās still a valid nerf compared to whatās in pup.
Because itās just that. Predictions.
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Well, if itās the case, theyād nerf accordingly, but since the bonus is new, Iām more inclined to believe they would nerf the new bonus, instead of other aspects of the civ.
This would be reasonable nerf, if a nerf is truly needed.
It would be ratherā¦illogical, if they introduced a new OP bonus and then kept it that way only to nerf something else. I hope common sense would prevail.
Letās see.
2 Likes
which ones?
The Frank pickers will go crazy even if you suggest a small nerf like Chivalry - Stables work 30% faster.
Afaik no one went crazy when they pushed Chivalry to imp, or nerfed the berry bonus. It would probably take a gigantic nerf (porbably something overblown) to anger some people. And hating on Franks is so mainstream nowadays you would think the devs would overnerf them immediately if they wanted to catter to the majority.
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The UT is pretty good defensivly but to me is quite far from being OP. Yeah, Slavs did not need any buff. So Vietnamese. But these changes make them way funnier to play imo. And the buffs are pretty small
They are clearly in a very good spot and if you remain at so high level for such a long time, a nerf is needed. However it seems to me that they are targeted more than other civs which are clearly above average like mayans and chinese.
Personally, I would nerf the other two before franks and also buff some other civs beforeā¦
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As an idea
I understand your concern but I think it is not needed. Let Slavs Boyar dominate TG over knights. I donāt think they can dominate over Franks, Teutons or even Lithuanians. This DLC and balance change is probably targeting to change TG xbow+knight ā arbalester+paladin meta. Weāll see camels, Boyar and potentially elephants more often which is very good imo.
8 Likes
Yep. They do. DauT got 10 villagers from 5 Tcs when researched to Imperial. Now I see the importance of Mahayana and I can also see a nerf is coming in the future.
1 Like