New Civ Idea - Göktürks

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

I won’t give much explanation for Göktürks. It is very important empire in History of the Central Asia, China, Sassanid, Arabic and Byzantines Empires.

The Göktürks are a Central Asia civilization in introduced in Age of Empires II: The Fantard Edition. They focus on cavalry and archer.

Civilization bonuses

  • Hunters and shepherds work 15% faster.
  • Blacksmith upgrades 30% cheaper.
  • Archer 33% of gold cost replaced by wood (Crossbow 40 wood 30 gold, Cavalry Archer 60 wood 40 gold).
  • (Elite) Steppe Lancer cost -30% food.
  • Scout Cavalry line +1/+2 damage in the Castle/Imperial Age.
  • Team bonus: Trade cards have +2/+2 armor.

Unique units

  • Böri (javeline thrower cavalry, high pierce armor)
  • Shaman (mounted monk, can heal while moving)

Unique technologies

  • Horn bow (Archers and Cavalry archers +2 range except skirmishers).
  • Cataphract barding (Knight-line +5 melee armor).

Military

Barracks

Halberdier, Squires and Supplies is missing. Other technologies and units are open. Eagle Warrior is missing of course.

Archery Range

Hand Cannoneer, Arbalest and Heavy Cavalry Archer is missing. Other technologies and units are open.

Stable

Paladin is missing. Other technologies and units are open.

Siege Workshop

Bombard cannon and siege ram is missing.

Castle

Hoardings and sappers are missing.

Böri

Cost: 60 food 50 gold
Training Time: 22 seconds
Hit points: 50, 55 (Elite)
Attack: 7, 8 (Elite) melee
Rate of Fire: 2.0
Attack delay: same as Camel Archer or Mangudai
Range: 4, 5 (Elite) (don’t gain range from blacksmith archer upgrades but gain damage)
Accuracy: 100%
Melee armor: 0
Pierce armor: 3, 4 (Elite)
Armor classes: Cavalry, Cavalry Archer, Unique
Speed: 1.4
Line of Sight: 5
Upgrade cost: 1200 wood 450 gold
Upgrade time. 45 seconds

Upgrades:

Hit points:

  • Bloodlines (+20)

Attack:

  • Fletching (+1)
  • Bodkin Arrow (+1)
  • Bracer (+1)
  • Chemistry (+1)

Accuracy:

  • Ballistics (hit moving targets)

Armor:

  • Padded Archer Armor (+1/+1)
  • Leather Archer Armor (+1/+1)
  • Parthian Tactics (+1/+2)

Speed:

  • Husbandry (+10%)

Creation speed:

  • Conscription (+33%)

Castle Age Unique Technology:

Horn Bow:

Cost: 500 food 600 gold
Research Time: 45 seconds
Effect: Archers and Cavalry Archers +2 range except Skirmisher.

Imperial Age Unique Technology:

Cataphract Barding:

Cost: 600 food 750 gold
Research Time: 50 seconds
Effect: Knight-line +5 melee armor.

Other technologies and units are open.

Dock

Galleon, Cannon Galleon and Shipwright are missing. Other technologies and units are open.

Defensive structures

Stone wall, Guard Tower, Bombard Tower are missing. Other technologies and units are open.

Research

Monastery

Shaman (Unique Unit):

Cost: 50 food 50 gold
Training Time: 60 seconds
Hit points: 60
Rate of Fire: 124
Range: heal range is 4 and same as Monk, conversion range is 6 vs units (it is 50% slower (conversion time is double) than generic monks)
Melee armor: 0
Pierce armor: 2
Armor classes: Cavalry, Monk, Unique
Speed: 1.5
Line of Sight: 11

Upgrades:

Hit points:

  • Bloodlines (+20)

Armor:

  • Padded Archer Armor (+1/+1)
  • Leather Archer Armor (+1/+1)
  • Parthian Tactics (+1/+2) (I did give cav archer armor upgrades because it is meant to pair with UU)

Speed:

  • Husbandry (+10%)

All technologies are missing except herbal medicine.

Blacksmith

Ring archer armor is missing. Other technologies are open.

University

Fortified Wall, Guard Tower, Arrowslits, Treadmill Crane, Masonry, Architecture and Siege engineers are missing. Other technologies are open.

Economy

Town Center

All technologies are open.

Mining Camp

All upgrades are open.

Lumber Camp

All upgrades are open.

Mill

Crop rotation is missing.

Market

All technologies are open

2 Likes
2

civ looks pretty good. very unique. very poles like in terms of bonuses to units that are missing key upgrades. however i think the late game hussars may be a bit strong with 5/7 armor. i also dont know how the unique unit will turn out as it is fairly cheap and seems pretty strong. no clue how the steppe lancer bonus will turn out. i absolutly love the abysmal monk tree and instead having a unique monk

2 Likes
3

i think this civ will not be broken and instead by a mid tier civ. i think you mostly just ignore archers and instead use your great eco bonuses to spam knights and or steppe lancers. sure you can have 9 ranged xbows in castle age but that tech is costly enough that i think that wont be an issue. i dont feel like the gold to wood convertion is all that relavent because gold isent all that more expensive then wood in castle age

1 Like
4

This civ would be absurd. Thry can boom into a strong scout rush, follow it up with a cheap archer transition that eventually becomes cav archers with +2 range and coupled with 5/7 hussar. And the icing on the cake is a cheap unique unit who has insane speed and solid range wirh minimal frame delay and can tank archer shots for days. What exactly is their weakness?

Does the imp unique tech affect the uu and cav archers too?

4 Likes
5

Imperial unique tech doesn’t effect cav archers and unique unit. It only effect stable units. Unique unit behave like tatar cav archer and Kipchak. It has more PA and movement speed but less range and no bonus damage against spearman line, thus it is weaker against spear line. It is designed as raiding unit. I don’t have idea how to balance. It isn’t too OP unit I guess. It need little fixing I guess.

Göktürks’s main weaknesses are bad infantry, siege, defense, navy and monks.

6

Well you should reword the unique tech because just saying cavalries would imply cav archers and uu included.

Yeah thry have stuff but the point is at no point in the game can rhey be considered weak.

Great early food eco bonus into feudal whatever with cheap techs.
Into castle age archers or knights into cav archers. This is probably their weakest point.
But then rhey get cav archers with 2 extra range (and cheap) + hussars with extra armor.

7

The discount on blacksmith techs seems too close to Bulgarians whonhsve s way narrower tech tree and eco bonus and the extra armout seems too close to Tatsrs who slready sort of have the best Hussars, and the UUs are derivative. I would reduce the discount to 30%, as well as making the UU a cav archer strong against archers, remove the other UU and rework the imperial UT to make it more diferent to Tatars

1 Like
8

Also, if you are going to use 10 range cavalry archers they have to miss husbandry. Too hard to stop otherwise

1 Like
9

They miss elite cav archer upgrade and armor. I think husbandry is unnecessary. I thought nerfing blacksmith upgrade a lot. You are probably right, it should 30%. I don’t want to unique unit to be cav archer. It should stay as javeliner but maybe it need nerf a little.

10

The problem is that you can basically run away against sone civs that habe no unit thats faater thsn cav archers while having a unit that outranges onagers.

Tbh the UU I would rsther make it a bit more unique (more like aranged knight rather than a melee genitour msybe?)

11

I emphasize giving weakness to civ. In late game, Göktürks’s strength decrease and they die very easily due to they having worst defensive buildings. Göktürks is weak against high armor civs like Teutons and Sicilians. They have very little against Paladin. Only unique unit is useful against Paladin but it is very weak against all trash units (skirmisher, halberdier and Hussar). Göktürks is like how Nomadic civilizations should be.

New unique tech is kind of copy of bagain. I think it can be tolerated to similiar units and techs if not exaggerated.

12

Except it isn’t true at all.

Yeah their buildings can be torn down. Provided you can get past the cheap army of cav archers with +2 range and hussars with 5/7 armor.

Thry are weak to paladin? Good luck getting to paladin in 1v1

Their cav archers will WRECK TEUTONS.
Against sicilians they can just kite for days.

Weak buildings doesn’t stop aztecs from being a top tier civ

3 Likes
13

Hussar has now +1/+2 damage instead of +2/+1 armor. Cavalier has +5 melee armor with Imperial Age unique tech and Steppe Lancer has only 30% food discount. Their cav archer doesn’t have Imp upgrade. They give 2 damage to Serjeant and crossbow (they don’t have arbalester) 1 damage only. Their cav archer generic in castle age. +2 range tech so expensive, thus it should be researched in Imp mostly. Their cavalier beat generic Paladin one-on-one with little advantage but it is weak against everything other than melee units. Teuton Paladin beat their cavalier.

Teutons should make castle defense in castle age. Teutons who one of the best defensive civ can defend castle age aggression.

Getting Paladin is possible in 1v1 but it is rarely done because enemy can instantly counter with cheap halberdiers. This civ has only pikeman without squirres. Paladin is very deadly against them.

14

And starting in castle age. So Their Castle Age light cav have 3/6 armor.

Hca means +1 attack, and some minor health. +2 range and being cheaper on gold is far better.

So Their crossbows trade 2 range for 1 damage and some health. Guess which is better? Oh. And they are cheap on the gold too.

The teuton paladins that you’ll rarely see in 1v1 and will get laughed at by their cav archers?

Again it’s arguably the rarest 1v1 upgrade. And good luck getting to paladin when you’re being swarmed by cheap cav archers with extra range.
Or scouts with extra armor.
Or cavaliers who are faster then teuton cavaliers and have 3 extra armor.

15

They have extra damage not armor. +1 in Castle age and +2 in Imperial. +1 damage on archers is stronger than it seems. Crossbow give 2 damage to Paladin and cav archer only 3. Paladin+skirmisher+ Trebucket push can kill this civ very easily. Of course, for instance, Ethiopian push would be so poor against Göktürks. This civ lacks last archer armor upgrade as well, thus, if enemy get close, their archer die very fast.

16

But rhe problem is the extra range + speed means rhey are laughing at teutons. People already say teutons are hard countered by cav archers as is.

Good luck getting to paladin dude. You hit imp and research cavalier. I hit imp and research cavalier + my unique tech. I got 3 more armor rhen you.

Assuming full bs upgrades (which your goturks are cheaper) I have 10 armor and take 6 damage a swing. It takes you 24 hits to kill me.
Meanwhile teutons have 7, and take 9 damage a swing and require 16 hits to kill.

How are you EVER going to afford paladin?

17

Longbow give 4 damage per hit but they kill 10 Paladin like in 3 hours. 2 damage crossbow and 3 damage cav archer won’t beat Teuton Paladin but Teuton side must push with trebucket and siege rams to Göktürks. Teutons has better eco in castle age by the way. 40% cheaper farms beat 30% cheaper blacksmith. In conclusion, if Teutons survive early game, it will beat Göktürks 70% in late game.

I think Göktürks would cause great distress to early Imp Arbalest civ like Vikings, Ethiopians. In last tournament, these 2 civ beat every civs. Only Franks compete with them but mostly with counter knight raidings. Archer civs immortal now. Göktürks can cover this gap.

I see a lot of games pro games, Franks researched Paladin and beat enemy with them. Paladin upgrade is affordable indeed but more cavalier is better a most of the times. However, this situation is different. Paladin is so deadly against Göktürks that researching Paladin against them always worth to afford.

Göktürks has great early game but in castle age, it has only cheap steppe lancers. Their archer discount keep only extra gold for late game. They are great/good/medium/good/weak in early game/early castle/late castle/early imperial/late imperial.

18

Dude. Go look and ask around whst people say teutons greatest weakness is.

Go ask how likely they are to get to paladin in 1v1.

Don’t use franks as a good example. They are one of the rare civs that can actually manage to get to paladin.

19

Actually they would be Pre-Turks according to History so why ?

20

10 melee armour FU cavalier with +2 range cav archer?

1 Like