New Civ : The Crusaders states

I don’t really know the difference between the two orders to be honest. In my opinion Templar is more iconic… Plus, I actually just stole the concept frome
age of kings DS ^^’

Yes, I like it :smiley:

I choose that weird bonus because relics played a really huge role during the crusades. For example, during the siege of Antioch a guy pretended to have revelations indicating the emplacement of the holy spear. They find it and use it to break the siege. The guys were fanatised, and a old piece of metal or wood (pieces of holy cross e.g) give them motivation and kill willing.
I m not sure but I think that the armies of Jerusalem kingdom went all the time with a piece of the holy cross. This is this special point that justify my proposition of the relic spawn ^^

Order of the templars are monks who took up arms,hospitaller are the healers who took up arms.a healing effect for a knight fits them better.

So back on topic, this civ just doesn’t feel like it was carefully crafted it’s a bit haphazard without enough synergy. Bad civ name or not, think over the high elo balance very carefully and make edits as needed before the ability to edit post one disappears (which happens after some amount of days)

I assume this bonus would be negated in CtR maps

Also, would this add one more relic to the relic count in the map, or would it teleport one of the pre-existing relics? And what would happen if you built a monastery near a relic? Would the bonus be negated, or would it spawn another one?

Excuse me, my English is not good and I m not sure to understand ^^’
You say that I have to improve and edit my post because soon it will not be possible?

Good question, but I think not. As principal eco bonus, it’s really important to keep it.

It add a new relic in the map, even if the monastery is close to another relic it will create a new one

Have you ever played Capture the Relic (CtR)? There’s only one relic and whoever garrisons it first wins.

Being able to spawn another relic would be weird

Ho! I thought I was to capture the x relics and keep them during x years.
Of course in your case, no relic spawn

The whole civ cries heavy clowning and would be a disaster to face on Arena. And on the other hand with no eco bonuses, no good ranged units and no husbandry their open map game play seems extremely terrible.

The unique units concept is nice, a military that serves as a mass healer (probably when not fighting) and the unit that slows down other units. But otherwise its not a good civ design. One or two monk bonuses are fine (like free sanctity or fervor, monks regain faith 10% sooner by default) but there MUST be an eco bonus (other than the relic based one) and some military specialization.

I definitely wish with some appropriate eco bonuses, there comes a new civ with these unique units and techs.

Of course the Crusaders are a cool theme and an icon of the Middle Ages. However, I think that the theme of the Crusades can be limited to new campaigns. You can add new entities to individual scenarios. In this way, you could add the Templar Order as Franks civ with a unique Templar Knight (in campaigns).

Teutonic Order

When it comes to the Crusaders, we already have civilization in the game Teutons civ, who are 101% modeled on the Teutonic Order. The Teutonic Order as well as the Livonian Order (also the German order) established the states on the Baltic Sea after the Crusades. The Teutonic Order later turned into Prussia, which would unite Germany in the 19th century. It can therefore be said that the Teutonic Knights were a European power that created a civilization separate from other Germans, based on strong militarization and the mission of being a stronghold of Latin civilization.

Kingdom of Jerusalem

The Kingdom of Jerusalem was the most important Crusader state in the Holy Land, but it lasted only less than 200 years and was a gathering of knights from all over Europe - so it would be difficult to create a civilization of unequivocally Crusaders.

Summary

The only Crusaders who managed to create a permanent statehood and civilization at the same time were the Teutonic Knights. They took part in the Crusades, which made them part of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, then founded a monastic state on the Baltic Sea in 1226. The Livonian Order established its own separate monastic state in another part of the region in 1202. Both countries were connected by the German chivalrous culture. They created a completely new German civilization due to the distance from their German homeland, strong militarism and the mission of protecting Western civilization against pagans and heretics from the east.

The Teutons are designed in such a way that they are entirely a Teutonic civilization. It represents both the Teutonic Order and the Livonian Order.

So we already have crusaders civ in AoE 2.

If you want to see other orders such as Templars or Joannites, just add new exclusive units to the campaign (including completely new ones).

2 Likes

Sure, it is not perfectly crafted and the Pilgrim special ability is a bit gimmicky, but I like the suggestion which has the merit to be creative. I understand people ranting about balance, but I think that in the process of creating a civilisation, the first steps are about creativity, and balance is adjusted after (but before release… or at least it should be!). Moreover Crusader states had the merit of being an interesting story to tell, fitting perfectly into a campaign, and a unique culture fusion between different European civilisations, in a Levant context (so not too sure about Camels though), perhaps putting them close to the Byzantines.

You forgot the hospitaller order of malta.

Yes, but they did not create their own statehood until 1530, when Emperor Charles V of Habsburg handed over the island as a fief to the Order of the Knights of St.John, expelled from Rhodes.

So it was more than 300 years after the Teutonic Order and the Livonian Order. The statehood of the Knights in Malta was established even after the Teutonic Order evolved into Prussia.

I personally think you did a great job in designing its flavor. Most of the people here aren’t appreciating it and are just nitpicking.
I personally think calling this faction “Kingdom of Jerusalem” can be nice. I may make a post about it.

Holdings might be small or late in the time line but Aoe3 has them as a separate civi unlike the TO.

are we really arguing about turning outposts into civilizations here!?

Thank you for your helps and advice :slight_smile:

I m agree with you. People are acting here as if we are actually creating new civ for the game. balance is important, even for a just for fun discussion but my point was more creating a funny civ with new kind of soldiers. I have the impress that now, the units are all the same and new units with original capacity are quite rare.

thank you :slight_smile:
I m french and in french we have the expression “royaume latin d’orient”, translated in english by “crusaders states”. It designed all the latins kingdoms created after the first crusade in middle east. It could be a cool oportunity to make a mixed oriental-occidental civsuch as byzantine but with more efficient cavalry :slight_smile:

Right @SalmonFox763203 let me interject here. Learn how to multiquote so you don’t spam the thread with multiple replies.

To be on topic

It is a tad arrogant to assume others who make civs aren’t also coming up with new units or fun creativity as well so that argument doesn’t hold a lot of water.