Ok @Sylux1000 @JoJo9942 @JokerPenguin593 I fixed the poll, but it seems that it was bugged, you hay have to vote again.
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Nice! I wanted to change my vote!
Vikings condos seem to be the winner, even if they are a bit weaker vs archers.
Onestly my money were on the Italians ones.
16hp is pretty significant. Pavise and Viking condos should eat same amount of arb shots. Although pavise is probably better vs skirms
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Itâs true though that vikings need less the castle UT, since they have more HP, and with their eco itâs more likely that they can pull off a fast imp condo rush.
Goths too should be able, but they have no reason for preferring condos over huskarls.
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Condos with cheiftans can fight cavalry. The naturlaaly fair well against archers with their good speed and they beat champions 1v1.
Arenât viking condos just ueber mayan eagles?
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I am curious to see other options on this.
I will try to propose some other better original bonus but is a difficult task 11
Another original bonus, although more complicated to implement, would be something similar to the free Kipchaks for cumans. Something like: every X minutes you can train one archer for free.
To balance this you should be sure that the amount of consecutive free archers you can train is limited to Y.
So for instance, if X=2 minutes and Y=5, if you do not train free archers for one hour you can train at most 5 free archers. To train the sixth one you have to wait other X=2 minutes
But this one requires more work to be properly balanced and defined (this is just a first draft)
A further option is to nerf the dock discount to extend its effect to archers techs (maybe just fletching line, but also to all archers techs if the nerf is big).
Thatâs on paper, with equal numbers and without micro condos wins, but in reality they are countered by archers.
They win barely, and champions with supplies counter condos cost efficient.
They beat well the light cav, but still lose vs paladins.
Also vikings condos is pretty rare context.
EEW is more faster and have a lot more pierce armor, so itâs still better.
A bit redundant donât you think, italians already share condos.
If instead you mean only for them, then there are also some problems, like it should be locked behind a tech (like cumans) since there isnât something like an auto-train in aoe2.
I donât know, I know that it seems that I simply trash any potential buff that itâs out of the box, itâs just that I worry that it would be complicated, and since it seem that after every patch, there are some bugs, I just want to avoid to much trouble for the devs.
That why instead I prefer some simpler and easier bonus.
wrt range combat italian and viking are equal between 4 and 8 damage range due to having to do round numbers
so its only in melee that vikings pull ahead, and of course vs cav. viking are clearly the winners.
depends what you fighting⊠condos do more damage (including buildings) rek EEW, dont have uber weakness to swords or even the extra dmg from pikes, and viking condos have a stack more hp than aztec/inca EEW⊠so depending how you look at it geojak is right⊠i always forget how many units actually have a bonus vs EW, even karambitsâŠ
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Some time ago I proposed that they could get 50% disc ballistics, I just tell you that it didnât end wellâŠ
Problem is, ballistics, chemistry, range+attack upgrades are all upgrades that affect navy too.
Even if you bring the dock tech to 30%, and the archer tech too, itâs still a lot.
Plus, tust me, you will never hear the end of it.
Also, but thatâs my personal preference, the italians have all discount bonus, so it would be nice if they get some different kind of bonus for one time.
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yeah either a consistent eco or military buff⊠even the free armour imo isnt great as its a form of discount
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Is there a way to use the trade units in 1v1 as a bonus? Something which allows you to use trade units to boost the eco for instance. Maybe, allowing trading units to garrison in buildings (market) you could have a resource trickle or a resource collection boost.
Mmm but that would be an unfair advantage in 1v1.
If you really want a buff related to a gold trickle we could think of something related to relics.
Like, if instead of putting all your relics in one monastery (which you could still do), every relic that has its own monastery generate more gold (like 50% more).
That way, you would have to invest more wood and working time (an early disadvantage to compensate) and you would also have to be more careful, since you would have to protect more monasterys (more difficult than protecting just 1).
It would also be historically accurate, since in Italy most churches were build around relics.
Still, I more toward the 2 initial bonus for archers.
Malian +3 PA is a bigger deal in practical post imp situations I think, where thereâs always a lot of arrow fire to go around.
But Condos themselves are too costly at 35G stillâŠ
I think that italians should resemble a bit magyars as gameplay.
I mean that they donât need any eco bonus, just a good military option (1°), something that help you towards that option (2°), and an open tech tree to support that option or surprise your enemy (3°).
The magyars have the scout (1°) as their main option, thay have a discount on scouts and free attack upgrades for them (2°) and a decent tech tree (3°).
Italians already have a good option (1°) with FU foot archers with pavise and they have an open tech tree (3°), they have the cheap age up as a support (2°) but itâs not enough, they need something to complement that a bit, like the free archer armors or simply +1PA.
it really depends what youâre fighting⊠knights and champs will rek mali more cost effectively than vikignsâŠ
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Well, maybe trade carts garrison could be associated to food generation. Or, if associated to gold generation it can be saturated.
This is good but it come too late imo. What about markets generating a gold trickle (saturated to something to be discussed, so say that you cannot build 10 markets to have a huge amount of gold)? This sounds also accurate, italians are also traders in the game (like silk road UT). This is correct for cities like Venice or Florence in middle ages I guessâŠ
Also if not markets, other buildings. If you get a small gold trickle per military building, this follows the mercenary theme. Like 0.4g/s per building up to 1.2âŠ
but italians option 1 isnt discounted loike magyar, neither do they have the incredibly cost effective equivalent of the magyar huszar which is also part of 1.
and imo the option 2 is physically worth less resources than magyar, who will almost always have melee units