They have strong arbs, GC (aside TT issue), discounted BBC and HC, FU infantry with the now buffed condo and FU hussars and cavaliers. They do have options.
And yet I see them only ever going for Arbs, like the 14 other civilizations who nowadays can only be classified by "Archer->Crossbowman->Arbalest "
Itās more similar to magyars bonus, and itās boring for you now (you were there when the idea came out, and you werenāt bored about it).
They have a flexible tech tree, and 2 UU (one now good, letās hope for the otherā¦) so they arenāt onedimensional for sure.
Yes, they are countered by onagers, but wait, those are countered by hussars, well, lukyly hussar are countered by halbs, that are also countered by scorpsā¦ do you see where Iām going.
They donāt need, castle age scorps + FU hussars can counter cost effective any combo, they cover each other weakness.
Plus, originally, they should have been a turk unit, and despite being against it, I could see the argument (worst trash ever), but italians donāt have bad trash, so they donāt need them.
But one of the best BBC (they cost less than a treb) and onagers and CR is enaugh.
Italians got the basics, archers rush, scout rush, FC into knight/xbows, fast imp into gunpowder. They only need for one of those to be a bit more unique, nothing else.
Agree.
And that fine, they have fantastic dock and AR, very good barracks, and good stables, itās only fair that they have bad SW. And still they have abonus for that too.
Exactly, but kmer were in a worse state than italians. Italians donāt need such radical bonus, they already go against the meta with their unique counters.
They have arbs, GC if they will ever get fixed, FU skirms and hussars, FU champions and cavaliers, pavise condos, HC and BBCā¦ they donāt just have arbs.
Thatās the problem of a lot of other civs, and it is because the general meta now itās that.
Spanish cannon ship. I am not support or oppose it, just state that there is an example.
- Any evidence about Italians had great usage of scorpions in the Middle age?
- Trash siege weapon is dangerous. It will be 0 or 100. Remember here is talking about civ bonus instead of a tech, that means you will have this power FREE in the CASTLE AGE, no matter which civ.
I actually like it since it is like the factory in AOE3.
Maybe change it into relic generation gold faster or other eco bonus.
Italians is just like Chinese, mainly archer, but sometime the horsemen are still useful and do very well for some request.
Because archers are their strongest point, but that doesnāt mean itās their only option. It depends what kind of civ and units you are facing. I doubt they would go archers against goths huskarlsā¦
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OK but then it must happen for the Turks at least. 350-400W Trash Scorpions.
Would be great for them as the Elephant counter too. Although every civās Monks REKT them.
Listen, since itās now becoming out of topic the argument, letās move the discussion on another topic ok?
letās make a new one, so that maybe new people join.
Do you want to create it yourself or do I have to make one?
3 Likes
In a water scenario say you do 20 vill in feudal, 20 in dark and 10 fire galleys. This is around 150 resources (assuming the 5% discount) between feudal and dark.
This could be compensated by a dock nerf to 35% (200 resources nerf approximately).
@DoctBaghi here some numbers
you can do it, i will join for sure
So itās a slight nerf for water right?
And on land, how much do you gain? Taking arabia and arena as the 2 base scenarios.
Yeah I could do it, but maybe @Parthnan wanted to make it, since he push toward it more than me.
made it
Good, now letās get back on topic here, and that is slight buff for italians.
- Free archer armors
- +1PA as a bonus
- 5% disc. on everything (itās correct)
Also, I want to hear feedback on the new condos.
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Overall a very modest nerf, it depends a lot on the battles. Just to have an idea, with 40% dock discount you are almost done, but the value of a resource depends also on the time you get it. So 35% is balanced. No more than 40% for Castle Age. 30% is the minimum
on every unit which is not currently discounted
this would be the implantation.
It means a discount by 5% of every unit which is not discounted
And thereās also the " Archer Projectiles move 25% faster" suggested civ bonus.
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Ummmmm
I think it should not accept the benefit form the tech and civ bonus (like the fortress in the editor).
Let it same in any civ.
We need to test it before, @Sylux1000 backed his idea with some math and reasoning, thatās why I included it.
As soon as we are able to test your idea too, we will see.
Does anyone know how to test it in the editor? Or made a mod out of it?
Sorry, I donāt understand, could you explain better.
Sorry that my mother tongue is not english.
Every civ can have same condo. For example, Viking condo has same data as Korean condo.
The data of condo like the cost, HP, attack and armor can not be influenced by blacksmith, UT and any bonus.
If condo get buffed, every civ get better condo in same degree.
If condo get nurfed, every civ get weaker condo in same degree.
That is it.
Donāt worry, mine neither.
Ok, but there are the civ bonus, and Italians get them affected by pavise.
Plus not every civs has a full upgrade blacksmith tech tree, or other techs like squires (which is important for condos).
And then of course some civs have better and more suited eco for condos and fast imp (like vikings).
Iām more interested in feedback about how the new condos fells, it they are sensible better, if they could be meta, if they still are a situational unit and so onā¦