I may have wrote it a little bit AoM-ish but a lot of things about the Mayans are shrouded in mystery so maybe thats why the plan has that AoM schmeck. In that case - this may be the basis for a new AoM2 civ - and in the AoEIIIDE they can be de-mythified. The polititians can retain the names - the chief, the elder etc but still give the bonuses mentioned and the Mayan playstile would still revolve around sacrificing like the japanese shrining or the sweden torping. I will take that AoM2 reference as a compliment because i just re-read my post and can admit that my ideas indeed are a lil bit aom-ish. My thinking as a person is revolving a lot around the mythical and the archetypal - and i can see that it shows up in the OP civ design suggestion but i think that it is still grounded because as u said - there are no mythical creatures ^^. In either case a Maya civ should be included to complete the mesoamerican triad of greatest civs that were existing prior to the first europian conquests. A Maya civ included in AoeIIIDE is an imperative.
So, I had some ideas on making a Maya civ. These are just suggestions but could be a framework to build upon either for the devs or anyone wanting to add them via mods in the future. I am very doubtful the devs will revisit Mesoamerica and almost certain if any new natives were added it would be something from a different region of America, like Mapuches, Muisca, Creek, Seminole, Guarani, Haida or even Pueblo. I also should point out the Maya were not gone and even in decline or decay is pretty erroneous quite the opposite in many ways. Their cities were not the same size as their classic period one’s, but population sizes are not the only indicator of progress. They still were making monumental architecture, were now practicing metallurgy, practiced new forms of government moving away from the ‘divine kings’ they previously had into more social houses, confederations and shared power among. Even their art continued to be fairly realistic in the final period (1250-1500) before European contact, unfortunately, a lot of that art has been destroyed so we don’t have many examples. Some states like the Kaqchikels at Iximche were actually beginning to expand in the Guatemalan highlands. Meanwhile in the northern Yucatan there was renewed interest in the Classic period, as seen in the new stelae being erected and older classic period stelae being kept in shrines. Keep in mind the Maya were never unified under some grand kingdom or empire, at times they came together to form leagues or confederations, or a particular kingdom held significant influence like Calakmul but that is it. Also, none of the states that existed in this period were continuous from previous ones of the Classic period, so there isn’t anything to decline from. In any case here are my thoughts:
(some images weren’t able to upload unfortunately)
Home City: Qumarkaaj. To fit the water theme Home City’s have you can have it overlook Lake Atitlan.
Personality: Tecun Uman or Quikab.
Gameplay: Uses deceptive and asymmetric warfare. Receives unique building shipments that replace the community plaza/fire pit.
War Chief: Explorer unit that gathers treasure. Can throw a beehive’s nest at units that deals a lasting area damage that spreads out for a few seconds. Can train pet puma. A second explorer unit can be summoned to the map from your HC via the High Priest card.
Trained in the Town Center:
Villager: Unit that gathers resources.
Chilam: Oracular priest who can reveal a section of the map for a brief period. Can heal units. Limited to one.
Trained in the Toj:
Medicine woman: Female healer trained from the Toj who heals other units. Very effective when tasked to a temple. Can be upgraded to a midwife, who boosts villager production if tasked to a Town Center.
Trained in the Temple:
Sabin K’atun Runner: Runner who is good against skirmishers, buildings, and artillery. They have a stealth ability.
K’iche Lancer: Good against cavalry.
Plumed Atlatl: Javelin who is good against cavalry and infantry.
These two are holding lances but you can replace it with an atlatl
Tzutujil Slinger: Slinger who is good against heavy infantry.
Trained in Nimja (Big House):
Sabin Beh: Spy unit that with the ability to build hidden stakes that disappear upon impact, which greatly injure or kill units - bonus damage against cavalry and coyote runners. They have a stealth and arson ability against buildings. Good against, mercenaries, buildings, explorers, and war chiefs.
Kaqchikel bowmen: Archer good against artillery and infantry.
Holcan: Heavy infantry armed with a copper ax. Good against infantry.
Trained in the Temple of Kukulkan:
Nacom: Powerful war general that boosts hp and attack of nearby units. Armed with a mace he can also train decoys – temple units who deal no attack but can distract units during battle.
Trained in Dock and Temple of the Diving God:
Canoe: Light canoe that can attack, transport and fish.
War Canoe: Fast canoe that can attack and transport. Can be transformed into a merchant canoe, where it loses attack, but can trade with ally’s dock or with your own. The further the distance from the map the greater the resources received.
Merchant Canoe: A canoe transformed from the war canoe that provides resources for your dock.
Ajaw Canoe: Strong canoe that can attack, transport and fish.
Farm: Slow, infinite source of food. Limited to 10 gatherers can also train turkeys.
Temple: Trains and upgrades base infantry units. Also has a ranged attack.
Big House: Nobles council house that trains and upgrades powerful units. Also has a ranged attack.
Toj: Home City shipment from the Wise Woman age up. Sweat house that heals units by garrisoning inside. Also trains medicine women.
Ballcourt: Home City shipment from the Warrior age up. Tasked by villagers that increases your military units HP or training time.
Temple of Kukulkan: Home City shipment from the Chief age up. Tasked by villagers that can trickle XP, spawn warriors, or increase Warchief attack. Can train a Nacom in Age 4.
Temple of Awilix: Home City shipment from the Elder age up. Tasked by villagers that improves villager gather rate, and buildings HP and attack.
Temple of the Diving God: Home City shipment from the Messenger age up. A defensive dock-like temple built on the coast with a large LOS and a ranged attack. Has an increased attack if garrisoned by villagers.
Home City shipments:
Pipil mercenaries: 1000 coin Sends a group of heavily armored Pipil long lancers with a +2 range.
Tlaxcaltec allies: 1000 coin Sends Tlaxcaltec allies in alliance with the Spaniards carry swords.
Zapotec allies: 500 coin Sends Zapotec allies.
Conquistador expedition: 1500 coin Sends a group of conquistadors, eagle runner knights, tlaxcaltec allies, and one horse artillery to your base.
Ixchels Pilgrimage: Villagers train faster.
Tame deer: Sends 10 deer for your villagers to hunt.
High Priest: Sends a second explorer to your base allowing you to have two in-game. High Priest explorer does not have the beehive ability but can rebuild a HC building if it is destroyed.
U are my hero. Nice alternative to my ideas. If combined This civ will be golden. Props to you mate. Holcan should be Spearmen and the use of the Macuahuitl club was commonly used so these Macuahuitl Clubmen should be a thing. And the Atlatl Javelin units should be a skirmisher type of unit (throwing the atlatl) that is good against archers and cav. But al in all very strong ideas. I hope the devs take the Mayans into consideration and we get a Mayan civ alongside a Gonzallo Guerrero Campaign - the spaniard renegade who joined the Mayans. Its a good story. Cheers brother
no cause then we might as well have Greeks as a civ. Or Egyptians as a civ.
Mayan is THERE as a minor tribe… where they should be.
The Aztecs are in the game and it could be argued that even they are a borderline case, they are in the game because of their involvement in one of the first major wars with a European nation, also they were the main power in central america so i don’t see any reason for the Mayans to be a main civ who had been on a steady decline since the 13th century.
If we have Aztec and Inca in the game, the triad should be completed. Mayans are one of the first civs that had contact with the europeans in the colonial age i dont know what the hell is you guys’ problem for the Mayans to be a major civ; and they outlasted both the Aztec and the Inca. That argument about the greeks and the ancient egyptians is pure fallacy and i wont even address it. Plus, how many of you had to check who Hausa are/were and how many of u know about The Spanish-Mayan clash. I mean the writings are on the wall. Im not saying Hausa and Ethiopians are not a good addition but guys like you arguing that the Mayans shouldnt be a major civ in aoe3 is just…idk…i dont even have words to express my disappointment with you people not approving how significant the Mayans are as a colonial age civilization. "tHeY wErE iN a DeCLine sIncE tHe 13th CentUry; tHey WheRe ciTy StaTes - So were the Hausa - city states that were constantly fighting eachother. Im speechless…the amount of ingnorance is stunning.
Good research and ideas, but with Inca and Aztecs we allready have 2 infantry only Meso-American civs.
I prefer a more modern and advanced civ like the Mapuche and off course they were a true pain in the ■■■ for the Spanish (which I like )
I like the idea of having more natives civs in the game. However:
1- Mayas are already represented as a minor civ. Considering their Golden Age is long gone, I think this is fitting. (also they are in AOE2, so they are not completely out of the AOE universe)
2- Aztecs and Incas are not super popular to begin with, so I don’t see why it would be different with Mayas. I think redesigning some Natives features would be important before adding more civs.
3- There are still many important civs with ZERO representation in the game (ex. Persia, Oman, Poland) that could be more interesting as well as other Native that are way more unique than the Mayas and coming from areas with little representation as well (Tupi or Mapuche for exemple).
In this forum, there is a pool for most wanted natives civs. Mayans were not added, but mentioned there and there. [Overdue Poll: Most wanted Native American civ?] They dont seem to be a popular request in any case
I think Aztecs and Incas are enough for the Central/South American representation and it’s probably why they’re even in the game in the first place.
Mayas might have survived longer in fragmented villages but were nowhere equal to the Aztecs.
Also, comparing Mayas to Hausa is unwarranted, true they both had internal conflict but Hausa culture was way more developed during the AoE3 timeframe.
South America definitely could have at least one more civ. North America has 2. South America has 1. Either Muisca, Jivaro, Guarani, or Mapuche are all decent contenders.
3* - Aztecs, Iroquois and Lakota
Muisca definitely deserves to be added to this game. As a highly developed civ, it takes precedence over the rest. Mapuche is second in line. A potential third civ could be a Tupi.
By adding these three civs, South America would have a sufficient representation of indigenous civs.
If the creators intend to create DLCs adding only 2 civs, I suggest:
3 Native American DLCs
- Native North Americans - Niswi-mishkodewinan (Council of Three Fires) and Cherokee
- Native South Americans - Mapuche and Tupi
- High American Civilizations - Muisca and Mayans
i also think the term “city state” should be taken with a grain of salt when it comes to mayans in this periode.
these aren’t the greek city states with 1000s to 10.000s of people, they often little more than villages surrounded by a few jungle hamlets.
They did have cities in this time, Q’umarkaaj is estimated to have had around at least 15,000 people and many other towns within their kingdom also had thousands of inhabitants each. There were villages scattered among these as well. And this is just one kingdom, not accounting for the Kaqchikels in Iximche, or Tzutujils in Atitlan or the Mams in Zaculeu, nor in the Yucatan in places like T’ho, Campech, or in the Gulf coast like Itzamkanac or Xicallanco. Just the Cuchumatanes region alone had at least 200,000 people. And the Spaniards at the time talk about battles the Maya fielded in the thousands and even over tens of thousands in a few occasions. Keep in mind these Maya armies were from individual kingdoms as there never was a unified resistance. It also should be noted most did not live in jungles, nor was a jungle environment the only kind of territory they lived in. Outside of jungles, they also lived in mountainous regions, canyons, valleys, plains, grasslands, marshes and swamps. Some did go into hiding in the jungles though to escape colonial rule though.
@AllegedSpy95956 is the singlest educated person in this thread. Others go read more and then return. Mayans should remain a minor civ - tsk tsk tsk …forgive them Lord for they dont know neither what they want nor what they speak. Shame that such an iconic civilization gets this kind of treatment from the “community”.
shame you use all your resources bad mouthing others and start out by making this a thread about why Mayans deserve to be in the game OVER some other factions rather than just stating why you think they would be interesting.
There is a whole post above that i made about why they would be interesting. How about u re-read the thread first then comment Mr Jonas. @AllegedSpy95956 also added some very good ideas and supported them with historical facts with his later posts. Also asking why would the Mayans be interesting as an addition to aoe3 sounds like a rethorical question. Your knowledge regarding the Mayans through the colonial period appears to be very limited if u ask such questions.
No one is saying Mayas would be impossible.
All we said is there are way more important civs to be added before considering them in the game, while pointing out that there are also more unique Natives civs that could be added as well.
For my untrained eye, every image shared here looks nearly identical to what we have for Aztecs. So I’d prefer to have something more unique like Mapuche, and it seems most people share my point of view.
why should Mayans receive special treatment over other minor tribes- like Cree and Mapuche?
I’d say Crees and Mapuche deserve a proper civ spot over the Maya.
What about instead of comenting in someone elses post;
“there is more important civs to add” or “there is still civs without any representation” just go and make a post yourself about them
I have seen marvelous post with many details, everything at hand, reseach, draws, pictures, bibliography (personally I’ve done it) and every single time there is this apathethic behavior of just discard it to the ground like they have done the research or even know what they are talking about
@Lyvione friend, dont react to them, be happy for @AllegedSpy95956 great work because thats whats matter, not the sickening negativity