New Mesoamerican - MAYAN Civilization

@AllegedSpy95956 What a hero!!! Can someone give the spy a medal please? Dude, ive done my research on the Mayans to have the audacity to suggest them as a civ in the game but u are surpassing me and putting me to shame ngl :slight_smile: . As for Apocalypto - good movie - but i can bet my left ear that at least 80% of the naysayers here have only watched that one and keep repeating the same arguments. Seriously though - @FelipeKahl and @AllegedSpy95956 - thank you for being here - u are the chads of this thread.

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And the most curious thing is that for that film they used Mayan people, settings and clothes from their own area (showing that the Mayan culture is still alive even to this day). Even several of the extras spoke the Mayan language because it is their mother tongue :sweat_smile:

mayalenguaje

I also mention Mod Age of Empires III: The Native Empires. This Mod will include the Mayan civilization.

I have a lot of faith in this Mod, I have followed his work and it is excellent :grinning:

Edit:

I had seen this poll before, it had been done before the release of The African Royals DLC. The Maya Civilization could be profiled to be the next Native American civilization in AoE3.

For my part, I expect a DLC called “Guardians of the Amazon”, where 2 Amazonian civilizations with a different style of play are added: They do not use coins but instead use a “Jungle support” resource (a resource similar to Favor in AoM), these civilizations would also not have cavalry and would specialize in poisons.
These Amazonian civilizations could be the Jivaros and Tupí.

The Mayas could be added together with the Apache: civilizations that lived alongside the colonization, having contact with the Spanish, the Mayan civilization focused on isolationism (in later ages having access to gunpowder weapons under the historical context of the Caste War) and the Apache civilization on the border having contact with Spain, Mexico, United States and the Confederate States (I would also like to see this fraction in AoE3, even if it is a campaign civilization)

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Not! You are the great one, the brave one, for starting this topic! Even more than any topic that tries to advocate the inclusion of an exotic non-European civilization, it immediately becomes a discussion of Austria, for some dark and obscure reason! I myself am afraid to start a thread advocating the entry of a Native American civilization, or an African or Asian civilization, as I am afraid it will become a thread about Austria, or about the inclusion of new European civilizations in the game. , those that have one mechanic or another as a differential, two or three different units, maybe a construction, another combination of the common units for all repeated and one of the 3 European architectural sets. The Mayans are important to the context of the time, as well as some South American natives (it’s amazing that in all of South America in the game there are only Tupis and Caribs, who don’t even have Tupi or Carib architecture, the Mapuches, without Mapuche architecture, and the Incas (the only ones with their own architecture.) The Guaraníes were either not mentioned, or they belong to the Tupis, as they belong to the same linguistic trunk, but they had very different cultures, and contacts with the Jesuits. the Tupi as a playable civilization, as well as the Mapuche, but before them I want to see the Maya, and if the Mapuche and Tupi are never playable, unless their architectures are fixed, as needs to be done with the Turks. As for the Mayans, I find it difficult to create some interesting weapons, like wasp hive catapults, but it would be nice to see something similar to what the warchiefs team did with the Maori catapult. It would also be interesting to see 16th century Mayan architecture, because the game’s Mayan architecture (as well as Apocalypto’s) is largely from the 9th century! If they used the Mayan architecture of the 16th century, the architecture of the Zapotecs would be even more trustworthy, as in that period they had greater similarities, due to their austerity. But the only 16th Fri Mayan architectural element in the game is the pyramid, which is basically in ruins, and for some reason they didn’t use it in Yucatan.

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The cultures were almost the same (with the minor differences regarding the enviroment adaptations)
When we talk about the language, the trunk is the same origin and mutually intelligible (again, minor variations) I can hear and understand almost perfectly a tupi-guaraní from brazil in this time, imagine how even more much related was back then when it was the lingua franca of all the south until the caribbean (thats why so many toponyms are in guaraní all over the place)
Why draw a distinction if they are basically the same?
Blame on the portuguese, almost every other tribe has his name but consensually called themselves “guarini” (warriors) but the portuguese explorers find one tribe with one name and begun calling everyotherone the same
For a time they spoke the language too because utility, then the Tratado de Tordesillas marks the start of the Guaranitic Wars, portuguese and some spanish against Jesuits Missions, the ports used the tupi to fight with them, enslave the missions, then betray them and enslave them too, then ban the language, and the name Tupí comesback in the brazilian romanticize ideals of nationalism era (wich is laughably ironic) and that kids is the history of how I met your mother
Returning to the point of the post, yeah, if we are not getting a full Maya Civ, at least a full upgrade to all native-american minor civs is needed

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would love to see that, any ideas for upgrades to them?

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I see this suggestion in other post (or is like it);
Automatically train one unit (or units) available, like japan dojo, the diference is, upon build of the TP it drops their first unit(s) instantly, that should incentivate build in a minor civ with many units or at least one strong unit
Can still train them at their normal cost but you get a free unit every once in a while for just having the TP (not so slow, not to fast)

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I don’t think they add Mayas as a core faction, but they could add a new unit in the native villages, maybe some kind of archer.

More infantry based civs arent needed. We need a fix for aztecs, who have lost their gimmic thanks to incas. Both civs have special dancers while incas have kanchas and the possibility to use llamas on the plaza. Also both civs have a great food eco but incas get it faster and easier.
In my opinion aztecs need a new gimmick or eco bonus. Adding a mayan civ would become this situation worse.
I dont think that other American civ is needed by the moment, we have 4 right now.

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Tribes and new units, perhaps, but civilizations would be very strained.

Could easily do more North American Natives, like the Inuit or, my personal favourite that I think should happen, the Iron Confederacy. Basing them around pulling units from the allied nations that make up the Confederacy would be one helluva gameplay loop and pattern to build them around.

But I don’t think the Mayans are something the game should explore - it already has trouble making the two infantry-only civs we do have unique from each other and reasonably balanced. Introducing a third, however good the intention behind the act, would just result in further disbalance. It’d likely end up feeling stale and bring nothing new, and I think that’s largely because of the engine’s limited capabilities when it comes to diversity among unit types.

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Please, no. If they are going to ad a new South American Civ, let it be from somewhere other than North America. I agree with you on the Mapuche.

The Mapuche are great and very fascinating but at the same time I like civs that have interacted with more than one civ already in the game. The biggest strength of the Mapuche is that they actually beat the Spanish.

Truth be told, South America is historically much less interesting than North America which served as an arena for a continent-wide battle royale among the French, British, Swedes, Russians, and Spanish along with many powerful Native American and First Nations people including the Aztecs, Iroquois, Lakota and the other civs I suggested.

How a civ from South America can be one from North America?? Im agree with mapuche but what mechanics they can have?? I think that they would be very similar to Hauds and Lakota

I’m pretty sure this comment is because you actually don’t know anything about southamerican history. Southamerican history is actually fascinating, just a little unknown for anglophones maybe because their primary sources are in spanish. Be carefull of being anglophocentrist when you make an estatment, specially when you talk about a continent wich was depredated and their native people erased from ‘oficcial’ history. Sorry, but it’s the anthropologist in me speaking.
Back on topic, I’m also think that if we receive more native american civs, they should be from South America. It’s the american continent with less representation in the game, with the incas as a main civ and mapuche, tupi and incas again as a minor civs.
I would say mapuche, tupi or guarani people could be potentially a mayor civ, and maybe aché, carajá, muisca, tule, lule, diaguita, achuar and/or selk’nam people could be new minor civs.

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No? Prior to 1800 the amount of European vs European wars in South America are far less than in North America and the Caribbean.

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Cavalry that can slow down enemy units, for example.

I hope I’m not doing Off-Topic but I wanted to make a few comments:

  • Hernán Cortés was one of the first captains who stood out for his ability to swell his columns with these native allies, particularly the Tlaxcalans (he had 200,000 auxiliaries in the final siege of Tenochtitlan).

  • Pedro de Alvarado’s expedition to Guatemala (1523-1524) consisted of only 250 Spaniards and between 5,000 and 6,000 native auxiliary allies.

  • In Aleixo Garcia’s failed attempt to conquer the Inca Empire by marching from Santa Catalina, there were five Europeans, including himself, plus 2,000 Guarani recruited from the Asunción area of ​​Paraguay.

  • In his expeditions Sebastián de Belalcázar gathered 11,000 cañaris against Rumiñahui (1534).

  • Rebellion of Manco Inca (1536-1537), during the siege of Cuzco 190 infants and 90 Spanish horsemen survived when a force of 30,000 native allied Huancas, Chankas, Cañaris and Chachapoyas came to rescue them. Francisco Pizarro had originally sent 3,000 Spanish soldiers and 10,000 native allied allies from Lima to Cuzco, but were defeated in a series of battles before reaching Cuzco.

  • In the final phase of the siege of Cuzco, the column of Diego de Almagro who had entered Chile in 1536 was back, his army was broken down into almost 500 Spaniards, 100 African slaves and some 10,000 to 15,000 auxiliaries contributed by Paullu Inca (Although 2,000 - 10,000 native allies and 170 horses died on the trip due to extreme weather and lack of food)

  • Gonzalo Jiménez de Quesada organized 50 Spaniards and 12,000 - 20,000 Muiscas in his campaign against the Panches (1537).

  • Pedro de Valdivia: the original group that left Cuzco was made up of 11 Spaniards and 1,000 native allies in January 1540, they managed to conquer most of present-day Chile and found some towns.

  • Gonzalo Pizarro and Francisco de Orellana at the beginning of their exploration of the Amazon River from Quito had 150 horsemen and 200 Spanish infantrymen plus 4,000 native allies (1541).

  • When Álvar Núñez Cabeza de Vaca and Domingo Martínez de Irala were governors of Paraguay between 1544 and 1546, the Spanish forces concentrated in Asunción numbered 800 Europeans and more than 2,000 local allies.

  • In 1550 an Irala’s expedition to the mountains of Peru included 400 Spaniards, 600 horses, and 4,000 native allies. It was a failure, many Spaniards, all the horses and 1,500 Guarani died due to the adverse conditions and the hostility of the locals.

  • In the expedition of García Hurtado de Mendoza to Chile in 1557, there were 600 Spaniards, 1,000 horses and 4,000 auxiliaries. He manages to pacify the Arauco by defeating the Mapuches.

  • In 1568 the expedition of Diego de Losada made up of 300 Spaniards and 18,000 auxiliaries defeated the Caribbean confederation led by Guaicaipuro in the battle of Maracapana fought in the valley of the Caracas.

  • During his campaign against the Yaquis of Sonora (1609-1610) Diego Martínez de Hurdaide achieved an alliance with the Pimas and Mayos, managing to form an army of 40 Spaniards and 2,000 to 4,000 native allies.

  • Francisco de Urdiñola’s expedition against the decimonónicos rebels in Durango (1610) consisted of 200 Spaniards and 1,100 native auxiliary allies.

  • Honorable mention: Jívaros, in 1599 a force of 1000 Jivaro warriors defeated a force of 300-400 Spanish soldiers on a moonless night, this incited a general uprising in the Jivaro tribes and leaders that ended in the destruction of 6 Spanish cities and the death of 25,000 - 30,000 people.

Obviously there are more stories, but I think that will give you some idea of the numbers that were handled in the armies during the time of the conquest.

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DUUUUDE, are you talking about the Aché Guayaki that have some extrangely weird similarities with old norse people?

historically = movies
much less = fewer
interesting = exagerated
N.A = hollywood

Japan
Interacted; Portugal, Dutchs
Fought; themselves

Mapuches
Interacted; Spain, Incas, Chile (revolt civ), Argentina (revolt civ)
Fought; Spain, Incas, Chile, Argentina

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hm? where they sea borne pirates or what? :laughing:

and china, russia, americans, british and french. not to mention japan became bigger in this periode taking the ryukyu islands and Hokkaido.

Those are out of the game time frame
Sakoku policy closed japan in that period

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