New Mesoamerican - MAYAN Civilization

Where did I say I was an expert lol, I said I looked it up and read about it in 10 min.

You might want to debate the user ontop of you as he says that Japan was at its limit at Pynyang, so your logic of them conquering the whole of China doesnt add up.

If you dont think that someones ■■■ is kicked when they get pushed back so far in in a short time period and having to ask China for help there is something wrong with you. These are facts.

Yes Korea and China had an army who beat Japan a few times in battle, but you talked earlier like Korea was the saviour when it was mainly China doing the work.

You also havent answered were you studied. So I am going to assume you are not an historian.

University of history in Bucharest, this is were I studied.
On the other hand if ypu would knew how to interpret history, you would know that there were circumstances, Japan was more powerful the Korea and China combined. Not their sheer power or tech defeated the Japanese forces, but the Japanese forces defeated themselves due to their General losing his mind and people refusing to communicate with him what is happening on the field due to fear.
That resulted in executing orders that had nothing to do with the reality on the field.
But from experts point of view, statistically and mathematically Japanese power at 1600 was top 1 in the world. If u think your opinion is better then expert’s opinion, you have some compartmental and logical thinking issues for sure.

I asked before for evidence for your claims. Saying some experts say so is no evidence. Send links instead.

And you call Austria closer to Hungary then Germany.

Because I give a wrong title for someone, doesnt mean the rest of the argument is invalid. Oh boo hoo, I didnt know it wasnt an emperor boo hoo. How can I ever recover from it?

And you call Austria closer to Hungary then Germany and never unified before wwII

Because I give a wrong title for someone, doesnt mean the rest of the argument is invalid. Oh boo hoo, I didnt know it wasnt an emperor boo hoo. How can I ever recover from it?

Ever heard of the world? Its a big place, you might know it. Because I dont know one small detail from Japan, doesnt mean I dont know others.

This was a thing you know

Yeah so? Germany has you know, Germans in them. Austrians are Germans. Thats why after ww1 there was this thing called German-Austria, which claimed all the German parts of Austria-Hungary.

Culturally and linguistically its way closer to Germany than Hungary.

Also the HRE was a thing. So yeah Germany and Austria were together. Doesnt matter the Feudal system went haywire, it was still officially united.

Buddy, stop watching Mel Gibson’s Apocalypto movie. The only place where there seems to be all that stuff you mention about the Mayans is that movie. And the Maya always made human sacrifices, they didn’t adopt this custom from the Aztecs. Until the beginning of the 20th century it was assumed that the Mayans did not sacrifice human beings, but archaeologists have known this fact for a long time, human sacrifice was common throughout Mesoamerica, as it was among the ancient Greeks until the classical era began. , and as it happened in ancient Rome once in a while, when the waves were conservative, and it happened a lot between the Germans and the Vikings. There are even reports in the Middle Ages that St. Columba and other British saints also had their versions of the practice of human sacrifice, in a church that had little control on the part of the Pope, who would certainly disapprove. The Incas have new mechanics, architecture totally different from Aztec architecture. It only has similarities with the Aztecs to make up for the lack of cavalry, and for having used the theme of Native American civilizations as a basis, just as it is with the Europeans. Europeans share the same architectural sets and have two or three units different from each other… They look much more similar to each other. Take the flags of the Portuguese and Spanish, produce crossbowmen, hussars, musketeers and spearmen not fully evolved. Can you tell them apart? Why more additions of American civilizations then? It’s almost enough to add different flags to represent them in the scene editor! (I am in favor of a visual reform of European civilizations, as unique textures for buildings at least, to at least differentiate the Ottomans from others, but also other civilizations, and new textures, or garments, for existing units, for greater game richness).

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I really liked the expression: “Preach it brother preach it”. Hahahahhahahaha!
It would be very interesting to see a Maya-Toltec civilization, even resistant, with late Spanish influence, and architectural elements such as the “arch of Labna”.

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Thats the thing. Thats the game design. Europeans share most units and buildings, while the devs chose to make every dlc civ have unique architecture and military.

Europe is about the size if not way smaller then the US alone. Most architecture and units actually were the same in Europe. China however was way different from Japan and Mughals. Iroqouis way different than Mayas.

And I wouldnt mind Mayas having some of the same mimics like no cavalry. But civs like Inca is almost every where the same but better then Aztecs.

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It’s funny that almost any civ suggestion post in this forum always end in an endless discussion about Korea and HRE/Austria/Germans.
I’m up for any new nativeamerican civ and mayans seems fitting!! (I would love to see mapuche anyway)

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Maya since they are the oldest of the American civs present in the game would fit perfectly same as Korea but for other reasons.
Maya is way older then Aztecs, way older then all the European civs in the game.

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European factions COULD have been more diversified in theory, but they aren’t for a number of reasons.

first of all having common unit simply makes balancing easier, esp when you got 8 factions.

second of all it would have dragged development and therefor cost out, either reducing scope or pushing the development a year more.

and lastly it probably wouldn’t have made game better anyways, at the distances we watch units from it would extremely quickly have become hard to tell the difference between 4 different musketeers from 4 different nations.

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Yes, they did especially in Guatemala you have kingdoms established in the 1200s founded by Maya warriors from the gulf coast who mixed with the highland Maya of Guatemala. They began expanding and were still doing so by the time the Spaniards arrived. The major power with the K’iche’ who were later broken up by the Kaqchikel who established a separate kingdom of their own in the 1400s and began expanding as a rival to the K’iche’. They were the ones with momentum at the time but this was interrupted in 1524. Maya kingdoms continued to be independent in the northern Peten almost to the 1700s. In the 1700s the Maya in Chiapas revolted against the colony rejecting colonial rule and Christianity. While it was crushed, the Maya in the Yucatan would later in the 1800s would later create Chan Santa Cruz an independent Maya kingdom even the British Empire recognized as a sovereign state for a time. They fought to maintain their independence during the Caste War against Mexico well into the 1900s. Here you can see some Maya kingdoms which still existed in the 1670s.

One could potentially differentiate them more from the Aztecs by including units of later timelines where they would have some access to steel and firearms.

Give the importance of religious movements (the cruzoob during the Caste War and ‘children of the Virgin’ in the Tzeltal rebellion) that accompanied their wars perhaps some kind of priest units or some relevance to that.

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Nooo broo, “maYanS ArE iRrELevANt bRo! tHIs iS fAlSe hYStoRy bRoO”. Thank you @AllegedSpy95956, u are the MVP of this thread.

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Mayan civilization was already collapsed before even Europeans arrived probably because of drought. Only religious sites of Chichen Itza and Mayapan were left from Mayan culture and unifying Mayan identity was reduced into a tribal identity similar to other minor civs (native settlements) in AOE3. Last and only war where Mayan people fought in early modern era was this Caste War of Yucatán - Wikipedia but i doubt anyone can create a full featured civ from them.

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Mayan became irrelevant because Spanish conquests? Excuse me? Classic Maya collapse - Wikipedia happened in 900 CE/AD and Columbus arrived in Americas in 1492. Thats 500-600 year gap there. Except for League of Mayapan - Wikipedia (which collapsed in 1441) and religious site of Chichen Itza. Spanish conquered city-states, not a full Mayan kingdom. And made Mayan city-states fight with each other.

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The Mayans took a very long time to be subdued by Spain and then fought a protracted war against Mexico in the Caste War of Yucatán which involved the British as both allies and enemies.

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To add, I will post some art that can be used as references for unit possibilities:

Villagers
From the precolumbian period - 1700

19th century Yucatec Maya villagers




War Chief/Explorer unit:

Ahau


Priest

Warriors



image
image
image

**Building units

Kawinal city

Cahyup

Tulum/Zama



Iximche

Mixco Viejo


Zaculeu

Houses
image

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His commentary was great in countering the Apocalypto view that many have of the Mayans at the time. This is all the fault of Mel Gibson’s period movie fables! They are nice and good movies, but they are not realistic. They don’t represent the truth. I remember that the Mayan temples shown in the film have an architecture that the Mayans had until the ninth century. Times were different, there were new architectural techniques, more use of columns, larger and more open false arches, roofs of wooden structures covered with lime and supported by columns, a somewhat more sober decoration, fewer crests in the temples… And that it’s just a detail!

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