New Mongols Lancers - Keshik need to be tuned down

Dude, a spearman need about 4 hits to kill a keshik. A keshik got 20 health more then a horseman, less then sipahi, so what is “huge” here? you need like 17 seconds hitting a building to restore health as much as 1 spearman attack does. So what is “broken” here? If you let a keshik hit 17 seconds your wall untouched it is probably your problem. French knights can just run away and heal while running and u can’t catch them.


The Life steal isn’t worth the HP loss almost never am I getting 15+ hits off for every unit before they die to make up for the missing HP I am down. The reality is 2 spears brace my charge and I instant die or 8 x Bow 1 shot me. I bet most fights each Keshik is averaging 3-4 hits off before dying which is 9-12 hp its just pitiful. If the life steal went to horsemen it would give Mongols some ability to fight age 2 which they want and maybe add a Imperial tech to give all Cav units the Life steal in Imperial. Really disappointed with what they did to Mongols.


What’s the best counter vs Men At Arms and Knights as the English?

Crossbowmen and spearmen.

this meme would be meaningless without his ability to heal himself, and it’s barely 2 per second not 3


The changes needed to Keshik’s aren’t needed on the Keshiks themselves.

Keshik right now fills a unique niché role which it does good, which is countering early MAA and early-siege/raid.

Mix them in with double-horseman production, and they compliment each other well in a fight/raid. (Horseman provides the cost-efficient mass, while keshik provides the burst damage in a fight.), with a sizable mass you can quickly burn down exposed buildings and obtain some early bounty. Keshiks combined with horsemen allows for some TC diving as well, as the TC will mostly focus on the Keshik which can handle the arrow damage, and heal up afterwards by chewing on a wall or wildlife (sounds stupid but yes)

Now the core problem of Keshiks is their power-drop off in the later stages of the game, and the ultra-weakness against spearmen in the early game, as keshiks alone, or combined with horsemen are still very vournarable to spearmen in the earlygame.

What is needed is not a change on the Keshiks stats.

But a Change on the Mangudai, as currently, Mangudai are pretty useless, and very cost-inefficient.
A simple change to the cost of Mangudai, such as making them cost similar to a Horse archer, say Food and Wood, would allow them to synergize much better with Keshiks, much in the same way Horsemen do.
The Mangudai will then compliment the keshik and horsemen better by being able to deal with the spear line, and provide extra DPS against soft targets.

Alternativly, is to change the Mangudai’s performance, by giving it better movement speed as in its current state, it is far to slow of a unit and will slow down your army if grouped with other cavalry. And slightly better damage against non-armored targets.

And also if they change how the Khaganate palace works by removing the RNG factor from it by either making it like the English Wynguard Palace or the Ottoman Military Academy, it will inherently “buff” the Keshiks, as mongols would then still via the Khaganate Palace, still have access to conventional Lancers in form of Rus Knights for the late game.
So they won’t loose that power output for the late game lancers used to give,now that you can mix in rus knight with your keshiks.

So By Changing the Mangudai, and the Khaganate palace, will indirectly benefit the Keshik and the overall performance this new unit gives to Mongols.

Keep Keshik as they are in the current state.
Buff Mangudai (either by lowering their cost or increasing their performance)
Remove Khaganate Palace RNG (either by making it similar to Wynguard or Military Acedemy)
Doing those 2 above changes will indirectly “buff” keshiks.

I they change mangudai I’m ok with that too. But give mangudai at least +1 range. I often saw me micro mangudai against Speers and because of the formation the Speers connect to mangudai and kill some. The problem ist if you have horseman / keshik and mangudai in 1 group, the melees are in front. If you move back the mangudai just start moving when the melees are in the back of them.

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The big problem is that team mangudais are broken in large numbers, that is, only in team games. This affects the game, if you see the grenadiers in the PUP, they are fine for a 1v1 but for a team they are broken.

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from 30 to 25 seconds of production

What I see is that the Keshik is strong, but obviously has weaker stats than the classic Knight and Spearman, so comparing them obviously loses to other early heavy cavalry.

However, and in theory, as long as they manage to stay long enough in combat and recover health with attack, they are extremely strong, and that is only achieved in the Post-Imperial age, with combos with other units and for Late-game.

That being the case, I see it as a unit to “raid” early, and for Late-game, if one strategically decides to improve them or enough for the fight in Imperial. For mid-game I see it difficult, because you need to create them, improve them, and that is an extra cost.

The same thing happens with some other units, like the Lanquesnete of the HRE, building many castles is suicide for your economy, and it’s only optimal as long as you have other infantry or cavalry to replace them… or but in post-imperial they do crazy things if you try hard in redeveloping them.

Another stupidity and proves he does not play AOE4…
Warrior scouts heal 2hp per second.
Keshig does not heal hp per second, it heals only when it attacks…

Hasan|chess stop being a troll!

I do not agree, Keshigs are waste of population in the late game.
In early game, they are too weak too.
It needs a buff.

I agree, mangudai needs a buff, it is 2nd worst unit in the game after Keshig.

I agree!

Not really sure about that.
Keshigs are still expensive and will waste the population.

scout has no armor which increases with age

the French knight has that ability and in the last tournament nobody played him :wink:

That proves my point once more!
If nobody used French Knight in the tourney, Keshig won’t be mentioned at all.
I have to thank you because you always support and prove my point in a creative way.

They nerfed the knight’s ability to heal in battle because he was so broken :wink: :wink:



Another Stupidity…
French knights still heal when it is out of combat!
Without any risk of being hit…

Keshig heals while attacking, which means it must risk itself to heal.
If a spearman hits Keshig just once, it needs 17 seconds to attack something to heal that damage and that is another risk.

Keshig is just trash!
In PUP, the Mongols have the higher lose rate…
No tanky unit, no wall…
Just garbage of a civ that got 2 worst units in the game.

They give Mongols several economic bonuses for not having keeps, they should instead reduce the cost of castle age outposts to 70 wood

Where is that statistic?

We would have to see how much an average keshik attacks before dying to determine their true effectiveness, even so, they seem to need a little more HP (same as a Sofa would be correct?).

The Mangudai was lowered by 20 resources, it is the only change it needs.

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10 of magudais against 10 archers survive 6 mangudais, because it has greater attack speed, in addition to having mobility and the easiest micro in the world, they only lose in equality of resources, reducing to 25 seconds would be enough of an advantage, in my opinion, of all modes if the rivals are going to give up at minute 6, I don’t think they will enjoy their broken unit :wink:

Hasanl, maybe at lower levels they can be decent, but they are very expensive for what they do and are easily stopable with walls and towers + cavalry with micro. I think -20 resources would put him in a decent spot without OP.