New Patch is awesome! (Tatars!)

Yeah, big fan of the update, except as it relates to Goths. The SL change was one that several people on this forum suggested (including myself), so it’s great to see that implemented.

Regarding Goths, it’s actually worse than that since they don’t get their full infantry discount until Imp. Even their staggered infantry building damage is worse than before, since previously they could have had +3 in castle, and they also don’t get it until Imp. So yeah, they somehow made Goths, already bad before the buff, worse than they’ve ever been since AoK.

They already had +1 building damage since Dark. The new bonus isn’t even as good as “Free Arson,” (which would be underwhelming), since you only get half of Arson’s effect in Castle, and saving a pittance of resources in Imp doesn’t do much. The 20% discount in Dark is nice, but not nearly enough to justify the Feudal and Castle nerfs. You’re trading from 16- 128 resources saved (1-8 militia) for Goth infantry being more expensive than they’ve ever been (since AoK) in Feudal and Castle, including more expensive Huskarls. Very bad trade, IMO, and it’s an extremely obvious nerf on non-open maps.

It seems that way. The +2 range to trebuchets seems like more than enough to justify Timurid Siegecraft, seems like the flaming camel is just for fun. Hopefully the Goth nerf was also an April Fools’ joke…

100% correct.


Good advice in case of catastroph: remember to save the calculator before me 11

Maybe then they are “overnerfing” the civ so that people can stop being salty about them?

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I understand that Microsoft want to revive the Capture of Delhi (1398) and the battle of Tamerlane vs Indians.
I just want to point out that, during the conquest at Delhi, 1398 AD, Tamerlane loaded his camels with as much wood as they could carry, and set them on fire and prodded the camels with iron sticks, causing them to charge at the elephants howling in pain. The Indian elephants were easily panicked. The Indian elephants turned around and stampeded back toward their own lines.

The use of fire against War elephants was not new. Even Roman Empire used fire against war elephants- 280 BC. The Romans also used ox-drawn wagons, equipped with long spikes to wound the elephants, pots of fire to scare them, and accompanying screening troops who would hurl javelins at the elephants to drive them away. Also the War elephant charge against Romans, was ineffective because the disciplined Roman army simply made way for them to pass.

But the Horses and horse cavalry do NOT flee far away from fire, nor the walls.

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The Flaming Camel would be useless if it was only an anti-elephant unit (only 6 ele civs!) so they made it anti-cav like most other camel units and gave it a bonus vs walls because it’s a petard equivalent.


Honestly, just give the goths an early game eceonomy bonus, which boosts feudal and castle age but not the late game and see how it goes. Don’t give them more infantry buffs they have enough of that. Every civ needs to have some level of diversity, atleast in defending. A perfect early game economy bonus would help goths reach this level and make them viable aswell, perfect counter for archer and cavalry civs, but weak against infantry ones. This is what we exactly need since there are so many archer and cav civs in meta but not many infantry ones.

Recently, I started to want a khmer-like bonus for them, like “mills are not needed for dropping boar and deer meat”. This would help them only at early game (not counting valley and steppe maps)

sorry guys, i can only laugh at the people complaining about the camel… have you even used it? tried it multiples times? its flipping awesome vs blobs of units, like the petard its not supposed to be great for a brainless person to just throw around at anything, otherwise it would quickly become OP.

for the people who havent had a chance to try em

2 camels to kill a hussar, but detonate those 2 or 4 or 8 amongst a blob of cav and watch the enemy cry for a fraction of the price!

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Wuuuut they aren’t affected by bloodlines nor husbandry but the Indian bonus still works? That’s weird.

i thought i read they arent affected by it… someone explicitly said as much (just confirmed it)

I did some tests and Flaming Camels since ti be affected by the Indian team bonus (how ironical!) and unlike what the wiki claims they also seem to benefit from Siege engineers.