New unique unit concept Hussite Wagons

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

I recently watched a YouTube video about the Hussite Wagons, so this is more about the unique unit Hussite Wagon, rather than Hussites themselves

Hussites were followers of a reformer Hus (pronounced whoss/hoos or simply not like hussar). They were Bohemian people (Dawn of the Dukes alert!) who resisted Christianity at that time.

The Hussites discovered that Defensive warfare >> offensive warfare. So let us use Defensive structures in offense. Sounds like Castle drops and believe me it is like that.

The Hussite Wagon is created at a Castle as a variation of Packed Town Center, costs 400W 200G and 5 population. It has 700 HP, 2/10 armor, but cannot attack (not yet). The Elite upgrades gives +50% HP.

The movable structure, that is the Wagon itself, can move at any location. When asked to unpack, it turns into a 3Ă—3 structure (similar to a Krepost) with 700 HP (+50% with Elite), 7/10 armor. It attacks every 2 seconds and has 6 base range. It has 3 secondary projectiles and ability to fire 5 max (by garrisioning archers).

Its attack is quite interesting. The primary projectile deals 10 melee damage, +10 vs cavalry, +8 vs camels, +5 vs infantry, +20 vs buildings. Its primary attack is unaffected by any upgrade. Its range can be altered by fletching line upgrades.

Its secondary projectiles are similar to Longbowmen. The 2ndary projectiles have 6 attack and are affected by Fletching line upgrades. As soon as Chemistry is researched, 3 arrow projectiles of 6(+3) damage each are lost and we have 2 projectiles of 12 attack, similar to Hand Cannons (these are affected by Ballistics). The 2ndary projectiles are still capped at 5.

The building receives bonus damage as buildings and cavalry only (since it is a Wagon). It doesn’t receive bonus damage as if it is a Castle.

This building can create some anti-cavalry infantry units. The building can pack again, and move to some other location when ordered.

A 700 HP building is underwhelming, but a 700 HP unit is overwhelming. Kind of both, kind of neither. The main weakness of this unit is Petards, because of the +500 damage (+700 with siege engineers).

2 Likes
2

So what does it look like unpacked? A circle of wagons? Like this?

3f4b7782254598b841cffe19be820338
3f4b7782254598b841cffe19be820338964Ă—528 136 KB

Another option would be to have it as a 1Ă—2 and look like this when unpacked?:

882b2af2461ec47e0ff9691de1506d6f
882b2af2461ec47e0ff9691de1506d6f916Ă—1258 242 KB

It’s and interesting concept! It seems very expensive for a castle age unit though, what are your thoughts on its viability in castle age? Would it be possible to train at the siege shop rather then just the castle so it isnt locked behind 650 stone, plus the high cost.

Also no other unit in the game has a pop of more then 1, not sure what I think of that.

2 Likes
3

I don’t want to be that person, I personally love You idea, but some things must be clear.

Hussites did not resisted Christianity, they resisted Catholic crusaders. Hussites themself were christian sect that wanted to receive communion in the form of bread and wine. They also wanted to take away the property from the clergy that was really rich from paid church indulgence.

The “wagenburg” strategy is not only unique to Bohemians. This strategy was used even by early medieval slavic nation to protect themself from Byzantines. That strategy was used by English forces in The Hundred Years’ War.

But yeah Jan Žižka made good use of them in Hussite Wars to kick crusader asses :sweat_smile:

4 Likes
4

But buildings have. Feitorias.

You see 700 HP for a 5 pop space, feels like a PI Burmese Cavalier basically in Castle Age. And 210 HP with Elite.

5

Yeah, even I thought about that. First 650 stone, then 400w 200g is a lot.

About the attack of 2ndary projectiles. Basically researching Chemistry turns Crossbowmen into Hand Cannoneers so the attack boost and projectile change.

Also the primary projectile is a cannon, which I have not mentioned.

1 Like
6

Idk. The whole idea has a lot of elements alien to AoE. Feels way to gimmicky.

Something like this is more conservative yet unique enough. A pack-unpack siege unit that fires gundpowder projectiles (like hand cannoneers, not like bombard cannon). Something like a trebuchet to take down armies instead of buildings.

1 Like
7

I honestly love this concept. for the building size i would say 1x1 should be better than 3x3 since seeing 1 cart unfold into a full on krepost is just…
Also, you don’t have to turn it into a building, trebs exist.

I was already hoping for Hussites in DotD just for war wagons, and i think this is a perfectly reasonable execution of the idea.

There will always be controversies and i get that it is a strange unit, but just like every other civ we will have to wait and see what the meta is

2 Likes
8

The primary projectile is of Bombard Cannons, hence melee damage. The secondary projectile before Chemistry is Crossbowmen’s and after Chemistry is Hand Cannoneers’.

2Ă—2? Similar to a Donjon.

The unit being gimmicky enough to add new features but is within the walls of Ensemble Studios, basically the pack and unpack thing.

I also think that the unit should receive gunpowder and archer armor class to receive bonus damage. (But not the cavalry archer armor class).

9

I was thinking 1*1, since its just a wagon with an open lid, so infact it depends on the wagon size, and if its a krepost sized wagon the by all means

i was thinking generic arrows all around, since switching midway from archer to gunpowder is a bit weird. another idea is for it to be a secondary UU, and only available after chemistry

10

Funny is… this unit should be (not only just the strongest) but cheapest unit in the game… Because… soldiers aren’t sodliers, but peasants with “flails” and ordinary farm carriage.

This innovative tactic by Jan Žižka was visible in the battle of Sudoměř, where 400 peasants with war wagons defeated 5,000 armored riders. And other subsequent crusades.

Hail Czech kingdom!

1 Like
11

even stronger than the war elephant?

12

Hail??? really???

And the hussite wagon might be strong, but a very slow melee unit, optimised for defending. So, it doesn’t really matter if they are that strong because bohemians will need a lot of support to make good offense. I don’t think that houfnice and hussite wagon alone can make the deal for them.

13

Slow and steady pushes - just like the Teutons

14

What’s got me curious is how are they going to move and attack when they finally get released in the DLC. In the screencaps they did seem to turn to the side to be able to attack, plus a front and rear gun. So I’m hoping we’ll see an interesting mechanic

15

I think it will be slower but tankier version of OG. It will shoot 2 projectiles as we can see two cannons on each side from the released screenshots. I personally want both of the projectile does full damage unlike OG that deals only 2 for the secondary projectiles.

Also it will be great if it can garrison foot units like rams and garrisoned infantry increase its speed.

1 Like