No "7 Puma Spearmen" card for Aztec in age II?

In the latest patch (43871) Puma Spearman was changed as follows:


So the unit is now weaker and cheaper. I would say it is a pretty good change.

However in PUP build “6 Puma Spearman” card was also changed to “7 Puma Spearmen” to mitigate the fact that this unit is now weaker. In official patch this change was gone so we still have 6 Pumas in age II card. In other words card is nerfed (because it contains the same number of weaker units).

In the last months all 4 military Commerce Age cards for Aztec was nerfed:
10 Otontin Slingers → 9 Otontin Slingers
9 Otontin Slingers → 8 Otontin Slingers
6 Coyote Runners → 5 Coyote Runners
6 Puma Spearmen → 6 Puma Spearmen (with -10 HP and -1 siege attack each one)

Isn’t it too much?
Overall Aztecs are being nerfed significantly in II age and at the same time they didn’t get any other mid-game buff or modification to their age III units (Arrow Knights, Jaguar Prowl Knights) which may need some rebalance.


For a siege issue, for a single shipment is too much siege.

The European pikeman, you can send 8, and it has a siege of 32, which gives you 256 siege.
The doppelsoldner, has 60 siege, and 3 of them give you 180 siege and if you add 2 uhlans, you have 40 more siege for a total of 220.
The puma spearmen now has 41 siege, and you only receive 6, giving you 246 siege.
An extra pikeman would give you 287 siege, it would be by far the best shipment in the early game if we talk about siege.
In conclusion, for me, it is well balanced.

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aztec is not allowed to be playable


Agree, 7 pumas is a strong card, but cost 630 ressources (8 pikes are 640) not OP.

Probably it is dangerous to give too much siege power to a rusher civ so fast. But now theyre military shipments are some weak.

so literally every single unit card for aztec age 2 is nerfed in some way, but hausa rush is left virtually untouched.


It makes sense for Aztec because stronger military shipment is their eco advantage in early game. Aztec needs to kill a few vills and/or buildings or cause serious idle times for it to properly follow up to next age. Maybe Puma siege was reasonable, but slinger coyote shipment nerf is just bad. Makes Aztec harder than it already is.

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Well, if we talk about rush, the Aztecs are not weak, there was a moment in which the developers commented that it was the civ with the best win rate in the game, of course because almost nobody used it and those who used it were main that executed the rush well, but also if it was very powerful 2 skull knights at minute 4 that besieged you the FB + the spam of sending units. Definitely the last changes that the Aztecs have received are not the best but they did not make it unplayable, The change of the pikemen seems to be good, the nerf of the shipments was reasonable, I am sure that soon there will be changes in general to the cards in the Aztecs will look more striking to use it

Skull Knight ageup time buff felt very random. A better option would be to make warhut ageup give 2 warhuts, and the farm ageup give a farm and an estate wagon.

if you make fb against aztec, it is bound to go down skulls or not. xD

Any 1200+elo player will easily defend early aztec push. Most of the time, win condition is getting vill kills. Just getting good trade with military is not enough. They can go age3, ship 2 cannon . Then all aztec army is toast.

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you want buff aztec patch after patch but nobody plays them and nobody realizes how strong they are lol, and also 7 pumas card age 2 lmao

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the question is why aztec are touched with mace shipment and pumas cost actually, need to revert these change and aztec are good even if its already good right now, but this civ its too complicated and then " oh my god this civ is so bad "

Aztecs are strong in age II even after the card nerfs, I think we all agree about that. However the longer the game continues - the worse their situation is. Only 1 available upgrade for food and gold in the Market. No access to artillery. If you are not able to kill your enemy within first 15 minutes you are lost because your opponent has a way better eco until now.

Really? If they are so strong, why they are not being picked by top players in any tournaments?

cuz is just not popular

I have approximately 1500 elo and I have played against Aztec players in rankings that can rush you before you build the fb not all are Ottomans to pass old quickly or Indians and French to do the 12/10

When you play vs Aztec you know you need to advance as fast as them with 12 vills maybe, it’s easy to stop them if you send military units as soon as you hit age 2 and if they push just make militia. Once the Aztec rush fails it’s almost gg.They have nothing to boom.

because you only face Aztecs who bot rush instead of timing i guess

I think the change would be fine if it were paired with a buff. At high levels players never go fortress w/ aztecs unless it’s an FI. Make their mid-game eco more viable and then it’s okay to tweak their rush downward imo. but a straight nerf to an underutilized civ is just DE things.

I think the problem is more on the huge amount of military shipments that Aztecs have on age 2, combined with the Messenger politician who always give you the best age time if you want too.
So I actually do like reducing the value of the shipments, so Aztecs don’t have a ridiculous mass on age 2 thanks to the shipments.

And I gonna say this: I played Aztecs a bit a while ago, and I honestly think that they are underestimated. They definitively feel stronger than Russians (For example), and I don’t even think that the Russians are that weak.