Non-balance changes request

  1. Remove the legacy trade workshop entirely and unhide the “Special” Trade Workshop. Give it an auto-convert property (like Sheep and Monuments). This is purely because the current trade workshop is useless (1000 HP, 0/2 armor, does nothing), while the special trade workshop is a cross between Feitoria and market (it generates food, wood and gold at an equal rate, and provides the interface to exchange resources). When the special trade workshop was introduced, it also had the ability to produce donkeys, which were slower than Trade Carts, but carried more gold. It’s really a pain that such a building is hidden from campaign creators.

  2. Elaborate and correct some civilization bonuses and UTs, TB, etc, like

a. Mongols team bonus: Scout Cavalry, Light Cavalry, Hussar, “Winged Hussar” +2 LoS. OR Scout Cavalry line +2 LoS. This is a mere bug fix, not a change.

b. Poles team bonus: same idea as that of Mongols

c. Ironclad: Siege weapons extra melee armor. It’s pretty convenient to replace extra with +4 and it conveys that much better.

d. Garland Wars: +4 infantry attack. For consistency purposes, I would like it to be “Infantry +4 attack”.

e. Chieftains: Infantry do bonus damage to cavalry, which does make sense but “Infantry +5 attack vs Mounted Units” is much better. // Although they do only 4 attack to camels, so adding “, -1 vs Camels” could also be an option.

f. Warwolf: Trebuchets deal blast damage, which is quite vague and incomplete. “Trebuchets have 100% accuracy; deal 100% damage in 0.5 tiles blast radius”

g. Khmer bonus: Villagers can garrision in houses → Can garrision houses with Villagers and Kings (maximum 5). The wording has been changed to match the similar bonus of Gurjaras.

h. Gurjaras: Missing civilization bonus - “Start the game with Camel Scout as the scouting unit; Camel Scout line also classified as Scout units”. This is because only Gurjara camel rider line possesses the ability to auto-scout, while also having auto scout feature on regular Scout line.

i. Vikings: Warships “and Transport Ships” cost -15%… etc. I don’t know if Transport Ships being cheaper is intended or not, so just clarified the civ bonus.

j. Logistica: Cataphracts +6 attack vs Infantry; deal 5 damage in 0.5 time blast radius.

k. Logistica bug: Currently non-Elite Cataphracts with Logistica deal +14 to Condos, while they should be dealing +15.


This would mess up lots of scenarios that use Trade Workshops, since you’d suddenly have AI players rapidly gaining resources they aren’t supposed to have.

I agree with unhiding the special Trade Workshop in the editor, but the resource trickle is more of a torrent - it’s much too fast for any game outside of Battle Royale mode and scenarios that are specifically designed for it.

Isn’t auto-scout only available on your starting scout, regardless of what that scout is? (e.g. even if it’s a horse or camel?)


Yeah, that’s what I thought as soon as I read it. It’s a useful building, and it doesn’t need to get removed. It might not have a practical purpose, but in the editor it’s very nice.

1 Like

How do you think that is implemented?

Go to the scenario editor. Place Camel Scout line (all 4 units), Scout Cavalry line (all 4 units) and Eagle Scout line (all 3 units). Test the scenario using Aztecs, Franks and Gurjaras. Camels have the scout behaviour only for Gurjaras. While all civs have the scout behaviour for Scout cavalry line and eagle scout line even if they don’t have access to it.

Is the LoS-Mongol team bonus on winged hussar just a description error or does it not work on them in game?

It’s a description error

Sorry for potentially a basic question but how do you pick between different units in the same line (archer xbow ARB) in the scenario editor ? As far as I could tell it was just linked to the players starting age and I couldn’t figure out how to force it regardless of age

from what i’ve seen you can only place units above the age you have, not below.
so ie if you’re in dark age you could put scout, light, and hussar. same with feudal.
but in imp you couldn’t place scouts.

Yes, it depends on civ and starting age. This is because if you start in a particular age, all techs of previous ages which are available are researched automatically (except Spies, Flem Rev and First Crusade).

So if you play as Mayans in Imperial Age (not Post Imp), you cannot place an archer, since it is automatically upgraded to Crossbowman. However, you can still place Crossbowman and Arbalester. As Mayans, you can also place all 4 levels of Scout Cavalry line without problem.

Note that Camel Scouts are upgraded to Camel Riders irrespective of civilization, so you cannot place a Camel Scout after Feudal Age.

Sorry, I don’t think I was clear. Your description says:

To me, that makes it sound like every camel line unit Gurjaras train will be able to auto-scout. I don’t think that’s true, and I also don’t think it’s necessary to try to clarify. Situations you can only set up in the scenario editor aren’t really relevant to bonuses affecting starting units, because scenarios usually have non-standard starting units anyway.

(I agree with a lot of your other suggestions for rewording bonuses though.)

1 Like

Not exactly only a scenario editor thing. You start in age other than dark or feudal age, the camel rider or Heavy camel rider also possesses the ability to auto scout.

You can also come up with such situations in map scripts, so some special maps.