After many team game. I can say without a doubt only counter to mass bombards(yes there still massed…even more now) or other siege is making your own mass siege.

No units counter it not even roylal knight with the most hp of all CAv unit

Patch made mass siege worse. I see way way more 15 bombard armys then before and Mangeols are even worse

Dont even say well hurrass. yes i killed china half of his villagers with knights and guess what still mass NOB and 6 or so bombards.

Pro here said it best SO CANCER

Yeh mass siege is def worse… I feel like mainly its the mangonel thats the worst unit when massed now.

Bombards are pretty vulnerable when you rush them mangos do area effect so it just nukes everything…

I think they need to put a pop cap on siege or make anti siege faster and cheaper

so its higher risk to go all in on siege…

They need to change the mechanic, not be lazy and overhaul siege, units that are faster should be able to dodge siege shoots, this game has 0 ballistics, archers should miss shots as well and there should be upgrades to improve that, is funny but devs thought that making the game more simple will be easier to balance, totally wrong…

My mass horsemen laughs at this.

Let’s do some math.

Horseman has no more than 240HP, except french can has teens more. One Mangonel shot do 12, 24, 36 damage depends on how far away your units are, and the area of 24 damage circle can cover 10 horseman in default formation easily, total damage zone is able to cover almost 20. If you are charging in 30 horseman to 10 Mangonel (same pop), as long as 10 mangonel can spread their first shot relatively good, most of your horsemen are dead before they can even touch the sieges. If you are careful using spread formation, they can at least took out one third of them and most of them will be seriously wounded. Then as long as I spread my mongos into 5-5 group, they can at least manage to make 5 of them to take a second shot. Since your horsemen are busy dealing with torch damage, they are gathered together, hence most of them (if not all of them) are dead after second shot. Further, if you can not finish one group of mango of 5 in about 10 sec, and start running towards the second group, (you can only torch 4 or 5 times during that time, which needs very good micro to do so BTW), third shot is coming.

If you really mico it, maybe it can be a close fight, but it is not supposed to, right?

Also I was picturing an extremal case, no one in real life will build 20 mango without any infantry support. Just a couple of sec delaying of the horsemen reaching minimal range, it will be a dominating victory towards the mango team.

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The fact is that the changes… only made that RAM push is weaker, because few horses meat RAM quite well and…thats all. Who cares if mango its slow move, once time he is firing with 4 more mango, u cant pass…

Bet, mass horseman my 20 mangonels 1v1 :joy:

Thing is, a mass of mangonels require a ton of space. 90% of the time your mass mangonels wouldn’t hit at the same time. Horsemen would be melee distance before some of your mangonels could hit. And horsemen cost 1/5 the price of mangonels.

5horsemen + 5 archers would beat 1 mangonels + 5 spears.

But honestly I prefer using knights and archers to beat siege + spear. If you want we could test out this theory in practice. We play 1v1, you go siege + spears I got knights + archers. I’ll even let you pick my civ.

I never said 1v1. Horsemen cost 120 resources while mangos cost 600.

Ok but you’re missing my point, if anyone throws mangos into their composition your whole horseman point is out the window

That wasn’t your initial point thought. You simply said mangos would beat horsemen 1v1.

Let’s just assume youre saying that, which you did not, that you throw in a couple of mangonels into a composition it would beat any.

Let’s say I have 20 knights, you have 20 knights we both add 2.4k resources to that composition

I add more knights, you add mangos. I have 30 knights you have 20 knights and 4mangos. 30 knights would win in that fight though.

Can someone ban or suspend that idiot?

Dude you’ve gotta be trolling, stop all your maths and actually play the game.

Yeah on paper it’s a better resource trade blah blah, in reality 20 mangos one shot all your knights and you do it 5 more times till you’re out of resources and rage quit.

And who the hell is using 20 knights 4 mangos, I wish, dude be realistic people just spam 20 mangos

We can try it out in practice if you want. What’s your ign?

Didn’t you say “Im out” like 20 times already? Why are you still here?
Also, that video is 2 months old, from before the patch. I believe Hera’s take on this should have changed quite alot since. You are just spreading missinformation

I think Siege is still too powerful, but I don’t post outdated videos to prove my point.
The reason siege is still too powerful as I see it is because the anti-siege (springald/Culv) is also nerfed. Horseman can charge against anti-siege units more effectively than they charge actual siege as anti-siege doesnt deal damage to them. Thats a problem which makes siege overall more powerful or just as powerful, since its main counter is now easily countered.

How is it even worse now? You people dont even make sense, maybe its still too good but after this patch siege is literally worse at anything less speed, leas hp, cav deals more dmg to them and none of the stats are boosted…

Right now siege is in pretty good spot. Infantry spam post imperial should not work against siege. And further nerfs will make siege useless. The effective counter to siege are springalds and horsemen but only one won’t do the job. Also mass horsemen is indeed effective counter to mass siege if opponent is not building walls every chunk.

The only think I want to be changed in siege is bombard should have very low and splash damage on units and 12 range is ridiculous to have for siege.

Lastly for walls. Stone walls should take more time to build. Or bombard should take much time passing through gates. Its annoying that villagers are building stone walls and immediately hide bombards when pushed with cav. Especially when bombard has 12 tile range. Mostly issue with China and Dehli.

9/10 HRE/English players hate mangonel.

Bro just stop posting

Thats also a 2 month old vid so completely irrelevant at this point. Siege is not that bad now

Why are yoi posting a two months old clip lul