October 2024 Update Discussion

General

Standard Units

  • (Elite) Battle Elephant conversion resistance increased from 0 → 2, increasing minimum/maximum conversion times by +2.5 in-game seconds.
  • Crossbowman upgrade cost reduced from 175 food 125 gold → 175 food 100 gold.
  • Arbalester upgrade cost reduced from 450 food 400 gold → 450 food 350 gold.

Siege Units

  • Battering Ram attack vs. buildings increased from 125 → 150.
  • Capped Ram attack vs. buildings increased from 150 → 160.
  • Armored Elephant attack vs. buildings increased from 75 → 90.
  • (Heavy) Scorpion projectiles now affected by Ballistics.

Fortifications

  • Palisade Gate base armor increased from 2/2 → 2/4.

Market

  • Trade Cart and Trade Cog collision size multiplier reduced from 0.5 → 0.25, making bumping while trading less likely.
  • Market base exchange rates for food prices increased from 100 → 115, so initial food prices are more expensive and selling provides more gold. Wood and Stone exchange rates are unchanged.
    • Initial standard gold price for buying 100 food increased from 130 gold → 150 gold.
    • Initial standard gold reward for selling 100 food increased from 70 gold → 81 gold.

Aztecs

  • Military units create faster civilization bonus increased from 11% → 15%.

Bohemians

  • Hussite Wagon train time increased from 26 seconds → 30 seconds.

Byzantines

  • Fire Ships and Dromons attack faster civilization bonus reduced from 25% → 20%.

Chinese

  • Fixed an issue where the team bonus effect was providing slightly different than intended bonus farm food amounts.

Dravidians

  • Thirisadai base range increased from 6 → 7.

Georgians

  • (Elite) Monaspa HP reduced from 75 (90) → 70 (80).

Huns

  • Hunnic Horse that spawns on Nomadic maps movement speed reduced from 1.2 → 1.05.

Khmer

  • (Elite) Ballista Elephant projectiles now affected by Ballistics.

Koreans

  • Elite Turtle Ship upgrade cost reduced from 1000 food 800 gold → 650 food 500 gold.
  • (Elite) Turtle Ship base movement speed increased from 0.9 (1.035) → 1.05.

Persians

  • (Elite) War Elephant conversion resistance increased from 0 → 2, increasing minimum/maximum conversion times by +2.5 in-game seconds.

Poles

  • NEW civilization bonus: Bloodlines and Scout-line upgrades cost -50% food.

Portuguese

  • (Elite) Caravel train time reduced from 36 seconds → 25 seconds.
  • Organ Gun train time increased from 21 seconds → 25 seconds.

Romans

  • Civilization bonus that benefits Scorpions wording adjusted, since all civilizations’ Scorpions are now affected by Ballistics.
6 Likes

The Byzantine nerf is unnecessary.
The Aztec buff was good.
I like the Elephant buffs.
Ballistics for scorpions is interesting.
The Elite Monaspa nerf might be too much.

1 Like

I think the most significant change is actually to civ selection:

Civilization Selection

  • The civilization selection dialog sports a new look! The new design includes the ability to mark civilizations as starred. On Console, the dialog now also uses a grid instead of a carousel, making it easier to select any civilization.
  • Added the Custom civilization selection mode, which chooses randomly from starred civilizations.

People have been asking for customisable random civ for a while, and this seems like the natural way to implement it. I think it would be good if you could save civ pools as well, since some players will want to choose randomly from different pools for different maps types.

Deer being pushed will ignore small obstacles such as resources and continue in the intended direction where possible.

I’m not totally sure what this means, but I find it interesting that they’re doubling down on deer pushing, an unintended mechanic that no one seems to like.

In a way, naval changes are always unnecessary, because water balance is all over the place anyway. I guess they did this because Byzantines are popular with pros on hybrid maps?

7 Likes

Xbow deserve a buff. But Bulgarians should get a buff when xbow get buff. Hopefully scorpion buff can help Bulgarian a bit.

4 Likes

I feel there are only good changes and changes I am fine with.

This is great !

Bulgarians are getting Sicilian’ed 11

1 Like

When setting gather points, holding SHIFT will allow spawning units to follow multiple waypoints.

This is a great implementation too

1 Like

They should have had made Jaguar Warriors stronger instead of tweaking Civ Bonus.

1 Like

I will prefer if Thirisadai is made garrisonable.

1 Like

Most of these changes feel sensible.

Although Khmer were already a strong civ, this is going to slap booster rockets onto them.

And I think the Poles change might be a hair too much. Perhaps they were over-nerfed before, and this just improves them on Arabia. But I would be wary of them now.

1 Like

Its not like I play the game (I used to be 1800Elo) but I hate how they powercreep civs like Poles with new bonuses.

Poles would’ve been perfectly fine with their bonuses if devs hadn’t nerfed their eco bonuses that harshly.

4 Likes

2.5 secounds sounds like a lot. I’m really interested to see if this will make them played more often.

Good, I like that they did that while introducing the market changes, otherwise it might have been a blow for xbow players.

I like it though I still would prefer to see all civs get capped ram in Castle Age but maybe players might try to take down castles with battering rams from time to time now, instead of just always rushing up to imp.

Oh boy, I thought heavy scorps did already receive enough buffs by now. Don’t know if this one was necessary, I’m a bit scared that we’ll see a whole lot of massed scorpions (like from Khmer or Celts) that can barely be touched.

Fully upgraded Feudal Age archer vs palisade fortifications:
old: Palisade Wall 250 hits, Palisade Gate 134 hits
new: Palisade Wall 250 hits, Palisade Gate 400 hits.

I like that gates no longer are the point to attack. But maybe they overshot it a little bit and 3 pierce armor might have been the way to go (200 hits). Imo it used to be too easy to take down palisade gates with archers, now it seems to be too hard, at least in Feudal Age.

I like the trade cart and trade cog change, it was always so annoying to have a lot of trade carts that are bumping into each other constantly.

I’m also looking forward to see how the food price change affects the game. I’ve never been a fan of heavy market abuse, so to me this is a good change.

I like this a lot. I think a lot of people thought about giving them back their carry capacity of +5 or at least make it +4, but giving them back their military creation is even more fitting to their agressive playstyle so this should be a good thing.

Also a good change, they’re still really oppressive for some civs.

Very necessary. Byzantine Feudal Age Fire Galleys used to win vs Castle Age Fire Ships in equal numbers, now they’re absolutely even. Still a very strong bonus for some maps imo.

Fixing issues is always good.

I mean Dravidians were already a great water civ… but I still like it. Thirisadai just didn’t see enough play, I’m interested if that will change a bit.

Another good change. Winning with Georgians always involved Monaspa play. Imo they were the single most broken unit right now. So I like that they nerfed the unit first and not their eco or their other options.

I don’t play a lot of nomad maps but from what I’ve seen this bonus alone took Huns from being unplayable to a top 5 pick, so I guess this change will be welcome.

I like that they keep this in line with other scorpions, but man Khmer will be tough to stop once they get rolling.

I like the upgrade cost reduction, the elite upgrade was never seen, not because it doesn’t boost the stats enough, but much more because it was so expensive.

About the speed change I’m not that hyped. To me Turtle Ships should be super slow. But they will still be the slowest water unit so I guess it’s still fine.

This feels like the most random to me. I guess they were like “Poles have a bad winrate, let’s give them another buff, just not to their eco again.” I don’t mind it partly overlapping with the Burgundian bonus but I don’t think they really needed another buff to their cavalry play.

Those changes are ok. Caravels are now the fastest created naval unit (tied with Longboats). Except in super specific situations a Portuguese player would always go for Galleons over Caravels. I would have loved to see another buff to Caravels, but now they at least are easier to mass if the situation calls for it.

Romans just got robbed in this one. Just take their bonus and give it to everyone without giving them any compensation.

Overall I’m quite happy with this patch. Sure, there are still a lot more changes that could be made, but I’m absolutely fine with this amount of balance changes per update, as long as the vast majority of them are good.

I’m just a bit sad for the Militia-line. I think most of us would have assumed they would get something but instead 2 of their biggest threats, xbows and scorpions, got buffed.

Apart from all the balance changes, the thing I’m looking forward to the most is the custom civilization selection mode. This will be awesome and I’m really happy and thankful that they implemented it into the game!

Not really. Light cav being cheaper help in Arena as well. Granted it is not as strong as Turks.

2 Likes

It had been needed for a very long time. It has never been correct that the fireships in the feudal age are able to beat the fireships in the castle age

Yes, they nerfed that civ too much in the past

The civ is wrong, even the Armenians are not the most balanced.

In some ways a little conservative, in others very interesting.
Was ready to suggest some kind of buff to the Teutons to not die badly against any CA in the game but now they have scorpions with Ballistics? Eh, they are very expensive though

The unique infantry units will still need to be improved. I will probably make a new thread, since it is not only Jags that have problems.

2 Likes

As Aztecs it is never useful to build Jaguars over Champions

1 Like

True, but it does not change the fact that the Aztecs as a civilisation have been nerfed too much in the past

Now defensive skorps behind woodlines will perform much better against Cav Archer spam. Interesting buff.

Yeah. A bit surprised to see Bulgarians being left out.

I think both was needed.

Also market nerf will indirectly buff all faster working farmers.

IDK. This is definitely my hardest disagree on this patch. Maybe ever.

Meanwhile I suggested this exact buff countless times. Good to see when your balance suggestion becomes official.

I second that.

In a reverse way.

Really? It’s now 20 gold more to buy 100 food, so if you just buy like 300 food to go up to Castle Age faster it’s 60ish gold more. If you’re playing xbow you save almost half of that on the cheaper upgrade again. So I don’t know but I doubt that this has such a huge impact on most games. Sure, those all in strats, where you just buy food for gold, will most likely not be effective anymore, but that’s a good thing I would say.