On what makes sense for a possible European DLC

Well using that logic Russians Germans, and Swedes would also fit that category since their colonies got taken over during the aoe3 timeline.

I will put the Italians (1492-1861) (because the Renaissance and the Italians Wars 1494-1559;leader civ Cesare Borgia with the personality of Napoleon),they will be a archaic civ how the Spanish (strong in the early game and weak in the late game) and the Poles (Polish-Lituanian Commonwealth 1569-1795 and the Polish-Ottomans wars 1620-1699;civ leader Jan III Sobieski with the personality of Gustavus Adolphus)…three historic battles will be Pavia (1525 between France and the Spanish-HRE alliance) in the Italian Wars;Vienna/Kahlenberg (1683 between Polish/HRE and Ottoman-Tartarian alliance) and Waterloo (1815 between Seventh Coalition and Napoleonic forces)…and after this european dlc (i called “The Europeans Wars” with two civs (Italians-Poles),15 europeans maps with 5 natives peoples and the 3 historic battles,i will launch a free civ with daily challenges for get them (how they did with USA):Danes (colonial empire in the Caribe,West Africa and East India 1524-1814;civ leader Christian IV of Denmark,uncle of the executed Charles I of England)…and after the african dlc,other free civ:the Zulus;civ leader Shaka)…

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If you put Cesare Borgia, you wouldn’t put an Italian leader. First because he wasn’t Italian, and second because it didn’t reign over all the peninsula.

Carlo Alberto or Vittorio Emanuele, both of Savoy would be better choices.

Not bad, but in that battle the Italians are really the protagonists? A battle during the italian unification would be better.

Also the war of abissinia would be cool, to give a new battle to the etiopians.

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Yeah, I don’t see Italians happening. Their unification was way too late in the time period and they don’t really fit as any excisting civ’s revolution either unless theyre adding a Italian city state or something as a stand alone civ.
Furthermore the Italians were just not a united front, there were many wars waged on the Italian peninsula but even in those they were never really a major player. I can see Italian maps coming with European DLC, but the Italians themselves would probably function as the natives or mercenaries on such maps.
I feel the Italian popularity mostly comes from an old statement that they were originally planned for the original release, now I don’t know exactly why the Italians were eventually cut but I think that was a good call. Just look at the discussion the Germans are providing, and they at least have some illusion of unity in the HRE.
They are often presented as some archaic civ with a “weird” age up mechanic, both of which are kinda redundant by now. We have Spain as the archaic civ, and I don’t now what they planned with the Italian age up but it has probably been re-used by now. Maybe even as soon as with the native civs.
In fact, if we take the Spanish and replace the flag/leader/HC and then rename some cards and units, perhaps replace some art. You have a pretty good functioning Italians should you really want them ingame. Replace some revolutions to be more fitting for Italians and presto. I can see some sort of skin-pack DLC working for the European civs.

for example
Spain → Italian skin pack
Archaic troops, religious fervor. works easily, the troops would even not really need new models really.
France → Poland skin pack
Poland is mostly famous for its winged Hussar, replace the Courrassier with a winged Hussar model and the Coureurs with some tough Polish peasant.
Sweden → Denmark skin pack
Denmark wants: special musk (carolean) special dragoon (Hackapell) Pike focus (Imperial Pikes). Sweden even has the merc focus that a low population nation like Denmark would like.
Russia → Austria skin pack
Poorly led diverse troops? Russia got ya covered. The cavalry can be reworked to represent the Hungarian/Balkans.
Brits → Prussia skin pack
Musketeers? Grenadiers? Heavy cav? The British have everything the Prussian would want. The only really odd duck would be the longbowman, but it can be replaced by crossbows or skirmishers or perhaps just some Pussian hunter type unit. Rockets can be Krupp guns that fire a exploding projectile mirrorrin the area effect of Rockets or something.

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They can work instead.

They would start as a “generic random state” and then age up incorporating other Italian states, until they reach the period around 1700 and their unification. They would work similarly to USA, and they could be a great addition to an European theater of war.

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Here you go, it’s a bit long :sweat_smile: so take your time.

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Everyone, please be excellent to each other and leave this place better than you found it. It’s a weekend in the summer for god sake. I’m in a lawn chair by a pool. Please don’t make me wend into a swamp and clean up.

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i could perhaps see a skin pack making Germans more Austrian with an Austrian leader, flag and HC but i dont see the point when it comes to Danes, Italians and Poles.

also i just think that would not be seen as anything other than a “cheaping out” DLC, it wouldn’t really make anyone happy.

Cesare Borgia itself was an Italian,he born in Rome in 1475…His father,Pope Alexander VI was from Spain…in addition Cesare Borgia is best known at a general level,for his military campaigns in Italy,which made him “The Prince” of Machiavelli and for being the antagonist of AC Brotherhood…

Please, add Italy and Poland

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Why Poland? I though it was divided between Prussia and Russia.

Maybe slavic caravans (native settlements) and a revolution for Germany and Russia.

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Yes,the Italians were really the protagonists of the battle of Pavia:the city of Pavia itself,defended by Spanish tercios commanded by the general Antonio de Leyva,the German military and Landsknecht leader Georg von Frundsberg (who fought against the Old Swiss Confederation in the Swabian War in 1499) and the Italians condottieros Alfonso d’ Avalos (after HRE ambassador in Venice in 1538,his son Francesco was viceroy of Sicily between 1568-1571) and Cesare Hercolani (he injured the horse of Francis I of France,which enabled the Imperial Spanish forces to capture Francis alive and ended the battle.Hercolani was hailed as the "victor of the battle of Pavia."In 1534 Hercolani was killed in Forlì by members of the Guelph faction,in vengeance of his action against Francis I of France.)…Would be something similar to the historic battle of Algiers,but with the defenders being Italians,Germans and Spaniards and the attackers being the French army of Francis I.Could be a very powerful battle between 4 civs of the game (Spanish,French,Germans and the new Italians)…

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The war of abissinia (1895-1896) it’s not going to be possible,because exceeds the timeline of the game,which ends in 1876,but it would not cease to be interesting to see it in the future…

They fit in the game as the Germans do…maybe they age up mechanics works like the U.S. states for USA but instead with the italian cities-states:

1)Florence:Economic tecnologies and units (market wagon and italian merchant who increase the income of coins) (in age I)

2)Venice:Naval tecnologies and units (mercenaries galleys and landsknecht) (in age II)

3)Rome:Religious tecnologies and units (church wagon and free bishop) (in age II)

4)Napoli:Spanish tecnologies and units (spanish garrochistas and tercios) (in age II-age III)

5)Turin:French tecnologies and units (french gendarmes and voltigeurs) (in age III-age IV)

Unique card in age IV:Risorgimento (Resurgence):converts all italians settlers in Revolutionary units

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Ive always been an advocate of changing the leader, HC and the needlegunner for the Germans to make it more Habsburg/HRE and make room for a Prussian civ which was a major European power and arguably the greatest one not properly represented in game atm. Even though that will probably never happen.

True, but then again. EU civs are quite basic, they all have one unique mechanic and all kinda have the same basic unit roster with some units removed and some replaced with altered versions of those same basic units. The only real unique unit I can think of so fast is the Abus gun.
When we look at what the devs have put out recently we can see that both the US and the African civs are filled with unique and new mechanics. I can imagine they want to continue creating stuff like that, in a European civ there is just less design space because they probably don’t suddenly want to create a EU civ that is vastly different from the old ones. If they do it would just stand out from the old ones and not really feel like a EU civ anymore unless they suddenly start reworking the old ones, and they probably are unwilling to change the core gameplay of the legacy civs nor should they want to.
There is just limited design space for EU civs remaining, that’s the major problem with them. Im not trying to rain on anyones parade here, Im trying to be realistic.

That’s what Im talking about, that’s not a new and unique mechanic. It’s a re-used one from an excisting civ.

I think Italians can work fine as “natives” and mercenaries. the Italian wars where mostly a French/Habsburg conflict with Italian participants that change sides all the time.

If we assume that the AoE 2 timeframe ends at the end of the 16th century (1598 - Noryang campaign) then this game takes into account Poland’s heyday. The 16th century is also called the golden age of Poland. It is worth noting that this game also covers the reign of Casimir the Great - the most outstanding Polish king, as well as the reign of Bolesław the Brave - the great conqueror. So it can be said that Poland civ fits well with AoE 2 - flourishing culture, architecture, economic and military growth - Winged Husaria fits the AoE 2 timeframe.

AoE 3, on the other hand, covers a time frame in which Poland made ends meet - numerous devastating wars, corruption and backwardness. Poland was ruined for most of the AoE 3 timeframe. Winning the Battle of Vienna (and the famous Winged Hussaria) is probably the only reason people want to see civ poles in this game - which is very easy to portray in this game without having to add Poles civ.

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Jesus, this is very wrong and unlawful… :man_facepalming:

You are definitely right. Poland, if it is, let it be an option of the Revolution.

In the case of the Slavic Minor Nations, I think it’s a great idea - it would be nice to see other Minor Nations, such as Scots, Swiss, Albanians, etc. - they could use the Mercenary units already in the game.

From the Slavic Minor Nations I would like to see Serbs (they would have a Hajduk unit), Croats (they would have Panjurs and Kondur; they could, like the Berbers, be by the water), Ruthenians (they would have Zaporozhian Cossacks: infantry and cavalry), Slovaks (having Gorals) and Silesians (having Silesian Schuetzen and numerous economic improvements - perhaps they would have a unique building - the Shaft Mine providing an infinite resource or at least increased).

Obviously this is a very large number of Minor Nations, but I think the European DLC should be broken down into two DLCs, each containing 15 new maps (30 in total). Back then, one DLC would add Western European Maps and Minor Nations, and the other would add Eastern European DLC.

Yes,Poland was divided by Prussia,Austria and Russia in 1795,but before this,Poland was one the most powerful nation in Eastern Europe…They fought against Prussia,Sweden,the Russian Tsardom,Ottoman Empire in various wars between XVI-XVIII centuries…they deserve their own civ…

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In AoE 2 it deserves, in AoE 3 it definitely does not.