On what makes sense for a possible European DLC

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

hey guys, as we are all sitting and waiting for the upcoming African DLC i thought it would be fun to talk a bit about a possible future DLC. the topic is meant to address the different ideas and rank them from “likely” to “unlikely” and explain why i rate those factions ideas the way i do. this subject is about Europe only, but i guess it could be fun talking about other factions in the future.

the general points i give to factions are as follows.

  • engaged in colonial expansion

  • an empire

  • existed as a country in the period, bonus point if it existed for longer/entire periode

  • an independent core nationality

  • engaged in a lot of wars, bonus if they are offensive in nature

  • cultural significance, AKA how famous are different aspect of a nation including great people.

  • number of factions fought

Likely to appear

these are the faction that make the most sense either triggering all or most of the checks above

Danes, Denmark-Norway: a large rich regional power in the north of Europe with a small, but long lasting, colonial empire. they represent the last true colonial power from Europe not in the game. the country participated in many of the wars you might be familiar with including the 30 years war, the great Northern war and the Napoleonic war. in terms of nations it fought it hits pretty much all of the current European faction with the only exceptions being Portugal and Spain.

for a more detailed, but definitely not complete, overview of the faction 1 can look at this thread:

Italians, Italian city-states: Italy was doted with dozens of smaller kingdoms and city states, the largest of which would found the core element of any Italian faction. Italians didn’t really have a colonial empire in this periode and they weren’t unified before the very end of the games period (1871). never the less Italians hold a special place in many peoples hearts not least because they are one of the modern major European nations. the Italians where cut content from the original 2005 game, and some of their unique units would be repurposed like the Elmeti and the Organ gun.

if the faction was to appear it likely would appear as a relatively archaic faction as it was originally designed to (also renaissance just was the Italian golden age). sadly there isn’t really any complete faction thread to draw from but id imagine unique swordsmen, crossbows and an age up mechanic similar to the USA.

Poles, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth: a rather large state in eastern Europe, and a regional power in the start of the game. Polands focus would be on cavalry, with things like Winged Hussars. sadly i dont know too much about Poland in this period and i feel like there is a lag of a faction design thread for them, never the less i guess most people are familiar enough with them.

serious but unlikely

these are factions that actually existed, actually did some things but for various reasons dont make sense to add. the reason is actually common for both of them: they are already in the game, they are called germans.

Austrians, Austrian Empire: a rather large state in south central europe, and also the most controversial nation on this list. if you wanna find out why its controversial then just read any faction thread with them in it. as for not being included then they are germans in this period, not a seperate entity and the german faction clearly has a lot of units and revolutions related to them.

Prussians, Prussia: a country that towards the end of the periode achieved the rank of great power. again clearly a lot of their aspects exist in the german faction both in terms of leader, unit and HC.

for more reading i would suggest these topics:

unreasonable

these are faction ideas i for some reason have read and which i just feel like popping once and for all, either because the faction straight up didn’t exist or because they just did litterally nothing in the periode.

Switzerland: perhaps the most common idea, so lets pop it. first of all the swiss are German, they technically already fall within the German faction. after that there are 2 claims to fame: 1 their mercenaries exemplified by their papal guard. 2 the myth of being impossible to invade.

Switzerland got invaded twice in the periode, 1 of which they succeeded to defend and the other 1 they got incorporated into the French sphere as a “sister republic”. you can read about the other 1 here:

so yeah Switzerland, unimportant, not invincible and German, i dont think we need to discuss this faction anymore because they make 0 sense.

Bohemia: their principal unit, the war wagon, is already in the German roster and it was a part of the HRE in the entire periode. was barely involved in any wars to begin with.

Belgians: they didn’t even exist until 1830 and didn’t get any colonies until after the games periode. the only way i can see them added is as a revolution to France and the Dutch.

i could go on but i dont feel like these are the most common i see.

13 Likes
2

The ones which make the most sense are probably Italy (was planned) and Poland (Battle of Vienna, Winged Hussars etc.)

Austria would be Germany 2.0. Maybe you could make them slightly different with a heavier Balkan focus but I would honestly rather see Italy first.

3

Nothing that is covered by Germans should be added, i think splitting up and adding more German civs is not a priority.

Italy didn’t form until the 19th century and are too late for the game imo, they also had nothing that united them unlike the Germans with HRE (it might be a loose connection but still a connection of some sort)

Denmark makes most sense out of these, the last colonial power.

10 Likes
4

To be honest, I’d rather see other stuff than Euro civs. We already have 9 of them. It’s enough for a while.

9 Likes
5

You’ve quite adequately put that the only real missing european power is Denmark…But we could have european maps complete with outlaws and independant (native) settlements.

But i would like european maps complete with independant religious retreats (native settlements) and euopean outlaws.

4 Likes
6

You forgot one interesting one: Scotland

  • engaged in colonial expansion

    image
    image800×1035 102 KB

  • existed as a country in the period, bonus point if it existed for longer/entire period
    They still exists as an independent political entity up to now. Interestingly enough, the Union Act of 1707 was in big part pushed by the Scottish because of the enormous debts Scotland had after the ruinous colonisations projects. In any case, they are independant before the start and for half of the game period, more than USA for exemple.

  • cultural significance, AKA how famous are different aspect of a nation including great people.
    Pretty sure they are interesting in that department. Scots immigration to the US and Canada is also pretty important.

1 Like
7

as far as i am concerned Scotland is part of the united kingdom which is in game.

7 Likes
8

The union happen relatively late in the period though. And Scots are a different people with their own culture and language and are not represented at all in the British civ (I’m sure you can point one card or unit name to prove the contrary, but I think you get my point).

You included Poles that also don’t exist independently during a good part of the period. Why couldn’t they be represented by Germans and Russians with that same reasoning? (There is even a card named Polish Winged Hussars in the Germans cards, but I’d agree this is not enough)

BTW, I am not an interested party here (Canadian with no Scottish lineage). I was just amazed to see Scotland as an independent country with actual colonies when I looked at some historic maps.

1 Like
9

Yeah Scotland is already covered by the British (meaning that it includes England, Scotland and Wales) so they’re redundant as a standalone civ.

4 Likes
10

That’d be nice. More maps, more fun :wink:

Considering we’re dealing with empire, I’d say you’re right for the time frame AOE3 represents.

You know, doesn’t matter to me personally. I can see both sides, though I’d say that Poland definitely fits AOE3 better than it does AOE2.

11

its always an argument but there are a few reasons:

  1. Poland was a pretty big country before its decline, scotland wasn’t

  2. while the colonies are called “scottish” reality is that it was basically part of the UK since 1603 since that is when the 2 countries became united under the same crown.

1 Like
12

I could see Poland making it to the game along with Denmark, those are the 2 final euro civs i would want.

I would like to add my own comments on the euro civs that are possible but not as likely

Austrians - I would rather rework the current German civ by changing their personality to an HRE Emperor and moving the capital to Vienna rather than adding yet another German cultured civ.

Prussians/Swiss/Bohemians - See German civ

Italians - It’s certainly possible but i would rather see them in the form of Venetians, Papacy or Sicilians with a unification option before Age V (similar to revolutions)

Belgians - No way, it would be an anachronistic debacle similar to the US civ

Norwegians - I’ve seen them being suggested at some point but they are already connected with the Danes at the time of AoE3 but would make a cool revolt option, you could also add them for Swedes and remove their US revolt which doesn’t make much sense in the first place

5 Likes
13

And honestly, the colonial “adventures” of Belgium are just despicable. Wars of Liberty, being a mod, can take more liberties on that regard, but completely cleansing Belgian history would seem extremely off.

14

Fair enough, though I think I made a good case for a mention as an unlikely choice at best.

15

There are quite a few European civs, so that’s not really urgent.
But the game has no European maps or historical battles at all (except siege of Malta). That should be added some time, with European minor settlements and outlaws.

2 Likes
16

i wouldn’t be opposed to some maps being added along side the top 3 factions. in fact maps are some of the things i am looking the most forward to with the African DLC.

17

the way i envision them is as a general pan-italian faction much similar to the Germans where as you age up you choose different smaller Italian states to incorporate into your Italian faction much like how the US state system works.

the only thing I’ve seen regarding Norway is as a revolution to Sweden and a possible Denmark, which is what makes sense to them as they only revolted once and it didn’t go anywhere.

5 Likes
18

You have convinced me with Denmark and Poland.

Italy seems interesting in the early period of the game with all the wars on Mediterranean and the commerce, but a lot of their territories were under the Hispanic Empire until early XVIII (Sardinia, Milan, Naples and Sicilia).

8 Likes
19

I partially agree, and they would probably be the most intriguing civ to add (nothing against Denmark, but I immagine them as more of a traditional euro civ, with few out of the boxes features).

It should appear as the Italians kingdom, and it was actually quite modern.

The base civilization should be a mix of the kingdom of piedmont-sardinia and Rome.

Then, like the USA, they can age ups based on the various smaller states. If they follow a pattern similar to the etiopians, they can start with:

  • Turin
  • Venice
  • Milan
  • Naples
  • Florence

Then add 4 more as you age up:

  • Cagliari
  • Palermo
  • Genoa
  • Mantua

Rome is your home city, so it shouldn’t be an age up. Or, you exchange it with Turin, which become the home city and Rome becomes an age up.

As for units, elemti, pikemen and crossbowmen (a royal guard unit) should represent their archaic/early pariod, but then bersaglieri (unique musketeers) alpine (Imperial guard skirmishers) and carabiners should represent their modern units.

In the end, Italy (and the other states prior to the kingdom) participated to modern conflicts like the 30 years war or the crimean war.

It would also cool if they had an unique embassy, since they were able to complete their unification thanks to several foreign powers (French, Prussia, England and Spain should be the options.).

6 Likes
20

original design was very clearly in the renaissance with organ guns, elmeti and merchant special villagers.

so an Italian faction would not be 1850s Italy (wasn’t a golden age anyhow), it would be an fairly archic faction simply because that is the Italian golden age.

i worry that if you add to many unique italian units it is going to become a mess both in terms of balance and in terms of unit synergy. like not much of a point having a faction with royal guard crossbow if they also get royal guard skirms.

if i had to make an italian roster i’d make it like this:

barracks:
Conditorri (heavy infantry with a multiplier against enemy heavy infantry)
musketeers
pikemen
Genoese crossbows (in between a crossbow and a skirmisher, high dmg with slightly worse bonuses, cost gold+food)

stable:
Italian knight (similar to elmeti, high hp unit with a small bonus vs infantry)
mounted crossbow (high dmg, lower than usual multipliers, dragoon type)

artillery foundry:
organ guns
culverin
mortar
Hoop Throwers (can be unlocked via cards, i know its not technically Italian)

i think this would make for a unique and well-rounded Italian faction.

i do like that idea, just seems like it might be a little to close to a consulate.

3 Likes