One of the most important civs of europe has been forgotten

Hello,

Before talking about this civ and its concept i want to mention something :

I think that people in this forum cry a little bit too much and are too salty…

This game was almost dead with a niche community on voobly and DE resurrected it. Want it or not changes are good for new metas and to keep the game alive. What the devs have made with this game is insane. They litteraly resurrected it and many people say they are killing it…

I agree there might be some balance issues with new civs but despite all the hate the new units and civs feel refreshing. New ways of playing and also cheesy strats. On SC2 you also had cheesy strats and people did play against it just adapt and evolve. I’m tired of skirms meta which is like 70% of the games…

I think there is a very important civ that has been forgotten because it essentially shifted medieval warfare into pikes and arquebuses and litterally ended the supremacy of cavalry and knights in Europe. This civ is the Swiss States.

Some historical context :

Switzerland was part of the german holy roman empire until the population decided to revolt against lord and the empire. Cities and their lands began to ally in conglomerates against the habsbourg and they slowly gained independance and autonomy. Over the 1300s they drew in nearby towns (notably Lucerne, Zurich, and Bern), creating the Swiss Confederation, and their repeated military successes against the Habsburgs—especially at Morgarten (1315) and Sempach (1386)—strengthened their de facto autonomy within the Holy Roman Empire.

The turning key point of middle ages was when swiss pikes defeated burgondian cavalry. In the 1470s, the Swiss Confederation also fought and defeated the powerful Duchy of Burgundy, led by Charles the Bold, in what’s known as the Burgundian Wars (1474–1477).These battles showed that the disciplined Swiss infantry could crush one of Europe’s most feared knightly armies, boosting their military reputation and political confidence.

Many historians consider this event to be the end of knights and cavalry in middle ages warfrare.

The swiss mercenaries were know as one of the most dominant european elite infantry of middle ages. That’s why many Monarchs and the pope had swiss guards they were the elite of the elite. Why was it the case ?

  • Swiss never broke formations prefering to die and hold until the end.
  • They were well trained and had variety of equipment withing ranks a formation had pikes but also other two handed weapons within it.
  • They used to go forward and used aggressive tactics instead of being slow and defensive.
  • Psychological warfare europeans knew the swiss were the butchers of knights and of burgonds
  • High morale and cohesion. Citizen-soldiers defending their own autonomy, with strong local bonds and reputations to uphold, tended to stand firm and keep formation under pressure.

the king of france was known to have the cent suisses which were the elite personnal guard of the king. that’s a small list of europeans kings using swiss troops for their personnal guard are there (many also used them during mid middle ages) :

1. Swiss mercenaries in general (14th–16th centuries)

During the late Middle Ages and Renaissance, Switzerland (then the Swiss Confederacy) became famous for its highly disciplined infantry. Many Swiss soldiers served as mercenaries across Europe — not just in armies, but also as bodyguards and palace guards for monarchs and nobles.

  • Yes, Swiss guards (in the general sense) did protect nobility — including kings, princes, and high-ranking nobles.

  • They were prized for loyalty, discipline, and effectiveness, and were often seen as elite personal troops.

Examples:

  • The French Kings’ Swiss Guards (established 1497): served as palace guards and protected the royal family until they were massacred during the French Revolution in 1792.

  • Other noble houses and even popes hired Swiss soldiers for protection during the late medieval and Renaissance periods.

2. The Papal Swiss Guard (from 1506 onward)

The Pontifical Swiss Guard — the one that still exists today — was founded in 1506 by Pope Julius II.
That’s technically early Renaissance, not the Middle Ages, but it’s directly descended from the same Swiss mercenary tradition.

other notable mentions during late middle ages and after.

  1. House of Savoy (Duchy of Savoy → later Kingdom of Sardinia)

A Swiss Guard served the Savoy rulers from 1579 and was dissolved in 1798.

2) Spain (especially under the Bourbons)

Spain employed Swiss troops and had “Guardias Suizas” in the royal military structure in the 1700s (you can even see them referenced in the official Gazeta de Madrid in the late 18th century).

3) Kingdom of Naples / Sicily (later the Bourbon Two Sicilies)

Swiss units were used in the royal guard structure, with Swiss service in Naples beginning under the Bourbon transfer of the crown; Swiss regiments were active roughly 1734–1789 (and sources explicitly describe Swiss “guards” around the Neapolitan throne).

4) Prussia

A Swiss Guard served at the court of Frederick I of Prussia from 1696–1713.

5) Saxony

Saxony maintained a Cent-Suisse–type guard unit in several periods (1656–1680, 1725–1757, 1763–1814).

6) France (the one you already know)

France had the Cent-Suisses (Hundred Swiss) as an inner/personal guard tradition starting in the late 1400s, and later the Gardes Suisses regiment guarding palace perimeters.

Also common (but not “kings”)

  • the Pope (the only one still existing today)

  • the Dutch Stadtholder (personal guard company; not a king at the time)

  • the Republic of Genoa (Doge’s palace/city gates)

  • the Duke of Lorraine / later Tuscany & the Habsburg court via Francis Stephen

I think there could be an anti cavalry and infantry focused around mobile pikemen and an elite unique unique being able to be good against most units like a swiss knife. That unit would be called royal guard reflecting that they were the elite guards of royalty.

Their unique tech could be something like : Until the end :

each time a nearby unit dies units withing a nearby tile are healed by 5hp.

Any ideas how to make a swiss civ ?

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Just play teutons man

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Multipe topics on this civi are already there.

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Not the same civ at all. it’s like you would say to portuguese to play spanish… Or to tell a spanish player to play portuguese…

It’s like the burgondians. You could just say play the franks. But Burgondy was one of the most powerfull kingdoms of middle ages and they had the best cavarly in europe by far. The franks should have worse paladins than the burgondians.

People do say the same way when it comes to civs outside Europe.

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this is the aoe2 forum. none of this is remotely relevant to the aoe2 timeframe.

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I believe you are looking for the AoE3 forums.

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Swiss were considered to be part of The Conqueror.

Just wait and see. It’s not time for them yet, but they will be in the game one day I’m confident !

Swiss is just complicated cause they were merceanry you know. (I’m swiss myself)
But yeah, definitly I want them in the game !

Maybe they could be present in the same DLC … Habsburgs austrians, and Irish ! (Savoy can be represented by already ingame french sub-factions in my opinion, except if they were kown for things unique enought to have them into a unique civ)

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What makes the Swiss in the history: Pikes, Mercenary, Crossbow, Colored uniforms per “Canton”, swiss-german speeaking language, soup throwing on the walls, and Cheese.

Gruyere AOP is a recipe as old as 1115. So Swiss civ need a special food making building. Cows and Cheese, it’s mandatory !

The other famous swiss cheese is the “Tête de Moine”, made by monks in the abbaye of Bellelay in the Jura area, first written trace about them is arround 1119. So something about food making in the monastery or a monastery variant named “abbaye”. Like the fortified monastery but food oriented logic.

Unique Units: Pikemen. The swiss Pikemen reused alexander phalanx style, but they were able to RUN in square formation. This is crazy and could make a very cool unit. Infantry unique spearman gaining bonus from surronding other unique pikes, it already exist in the game so maybe it needs a different behavior.

Ironically, I don’t really know a lot of the swiss history, we’ve not learnt that much at school…We learnt about foreigner countries story more than our own. We learnt the area joining history more than the middle age of the Switzerland, which is extremly sad.

One thing we got in the Swiss Folklore is Guillaume Tell, with the famous apple and crossbow story. So swiss used crossbow at some point, but I’d disable the arbalester upgrade cause we were peasant not an empire. I’d instead give the archer line a wood cost reduction in the civ bonus, cause we got lot of wood idk.

Navy should be terrible, it’s mandatory, we have no access to the sea only lakes and river. But some very badass stone carrying ships were on the Leman Lake, idk their time period but one was repliced based on historical records, as well as a Napoleonic era galley in my own city (even if no ship of that type ever sailed on the Leman Lake). So probably I’d suggest a bonus on naval trading but extremly poor naval combat capability, it’s definitly not where we shine at.

Roads, we are lucky enought in switzerland to have lots of roman built and even gaul made, roads. Some part of the country got better logistic than others deep in the alps, but we definitly have a pretty old and badass road system. We were not road builders, but I suppose we kept the knowledge of connecting cities with roads due to the roman legacy.

As team bonus ? Easy, a swiss mercenary unit available to the team. Paied in gold. I won’t suggest any type of soldier here because what made the Swiss Mercenary famous was not really their fighting style, but their loyalty. So this unit needs an extremly high conversion resistance, or immunity, cause you could not corrupt a swiss mercenary. They even fought other Canton Mercenaries historically, it was their job, without any pledge to any lord, just duty payed soldiers.

Maybe the road thing could also be a team bonus, like improving trading cart speed…But meh, a better team bonus could be added to the mercenary unit. Here I think it’s better to let the devs dive into swiss historical events to find what is legit for the middle age.

Castle ? Problem here is that Switzerland is a damn patchwork of diffrent empires beeing there and there. In the frenchy part we got Savoy style castles mainly, or napoleonic ones. In the germanish part they got more teutonic style castles. There is way too much swiss castle style to pick one that would represent the Swiss as a nation… Maybe that would requiere a special choice, like you build a basic castle during cstle age, and then you got choice to pick either the savoy influence, or the habsburg influence that would alter the castle design, like a doctrina… But it’s not very “legit”, it wasn’t really a doctrina choice, it was more “the invaded that occupied the country built it that way”… So maybe a mix of style between the castle of Vufflens, of Nyon, of Chillon and some more habsburgish type for some details.

Wonder ? One of the many damn “capital builiding” we got, there are too much available to pick one so definitly it requieres a mix of the famous one, the art team will find it easily.

The audio… I hate swiss-german sounding but it definitly need proto-swiss-german language in the audio files, some kind of proto germanic thing.

Neuchatel area was also a vacation place for foreigner sovereign from what I heard. There is definitly a very cool topic to dive into with Swiss as a themed civ in a dlc. I’d love to have a campaign about the swiss history.

For the late game, gunpowder, swiss pike formations were combined with gunners very fast to stay viable on the field.

And the more I think about it, the more I’m convinced a Swiss civ need their archennemy, the austrian heavy cavalry oriented civ in the very same DLC. Habsburg story can be used on so many part of the game, as they spread from austria to spain with time.

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1. Swiss mercenaries in general (14th–16th centuries)

During the late Middle Ages and Renaissance, Switzerland (then the Swiss Confederacy) became famous for its highly disciplined infantry. Many Swiss soldiers served as mercenaries across Europe — not just in armies, but also as bodyguards and palace guards for monarchs and nobles.

  • Yes, Swiss guards (in the general sense) did protect nobility — including kings, princes, and high-ranking nobles.

  • They were prized for loyalty, discipline, and effectiveness, and were often seen as elite personal troops.

Examples:

  • The French Kings’ Swiss Guards (established 1497): served as palace guards and protected the royal family until they were massacred during the French Revolution in 1792.

  • Other noble houses and even popes hired Swiss soldiers for protection during the late medieval and Renaissance periods.

2. The Papal Swiss Guard (from 1506 onward)

The Pontifical Swiss Guard — the one that still exists today — was founded in 1506 by Pope Julius II.
That’s technically early Renaissance, not the Middle Ages, but it’s directly descended from the same Swiss mercenary tradition.

1 Like

[French article] Battle of Grandson

On this image you can see lots of flags, for example, every Canton got its own flag, I see Uri flag (the black bull on yellow background), also some other I’m not sure about but I definitly see many swiss canton flags on that image.

There is lot of historical records about the epic battles, now I’m hyped to play that ingame ahaha.
The only question is: When will the Swiss come ?

Just a little bit of my background i have a bachelors degree in history geography archeology a master degree in History and another one in pedagogy. I just didn’t had the time to look for the sources and was lazy so i used chatgpt. But yes swiss mercenaries were used as elite body guards since mid late middle ages. Just like byzance and their varangian guards… Which is a shame that it is not represented in the game.

It’s not because many ignore that fact that we can’t have what was due. There are many complaining about new things. I agree there are balances issues however I’m sure you would like something like a static meta. Let the game evolve creating new ways of playing and cheesy strats that’s what makes the game interesting. And i’m sorry i’m advocating phosphoru because his ways of playing are a fresh breeze into the game. it’s fun and creative and it’s way funnier to play those in competition even pros try to phosphoru and that makes things way more spicy and funnier to watch…

I’m tired of the same old strats :

  • Feudal into scouts
  • archers and skirms
  • militia opening
  • fast castle drop
  • booming into cav.
  • stalemate in imperial into hussard making the diff.

That’s 80% of the games out there.

sometimes you have a little bit more originality.

it’s getting annoying… if there was more diversity it would be funnier.

But…that’s a good loose approximation of Middle Ages warfare in a video game setting.

Skipping an entire stage of development to only make the most elite and specialist units possible is weird. I want to see armies, not spam.

not at all most middle ages warfare was dominated by short pikes first then long pikes, when cavalry dominated it was early and early mid middles ages when swords were more common as the main weapon. Moreover knights used mostly spears. archers were peasants, around 10-20% of an army was knights for medieval europe. Horses were expensive and difficult to maintain and the extra logistics were not easy to add up. So battlefields were mostly dominated by infantry.

a lot of wars were won by winning battles during unusual events or unusual strategies. that’s why i like cheesy strats.

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It would be cool to allow the use of Swiss guards in exchange for money for allies and enemies.

Easiest way to have this would be the unit passively generate gold.I think another unit generates food or wood already.

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I just want a civ that makes money from everyone haha.

If you didn’t even write your own arguments, why should anyone respond to you? I might as well have a chat with ChatGPT

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