Organ Guns Firing Differently?

So I recently tried out the Portuguese after the spring patch and noticed that they fire differently now. Before the update, they would fire all of their bullets at the same. time. Now, however, they appear to fire each bullet one at a time. This causes them to be much weaker against enemies because they don’t fire all of their bullets at once. Anyone else noticed this?

Gotta try this out when I wake up.

Yes, they fire one bullet at a time, but I don’t know how much difference does it make

I think it’s because to fire all of the bullets one at a time, it takes about 2 seconds (going at 1.0 speed), and after it’s finished firing for that period of time, it adds the reload time to it, which is 3.45 seconds (still at 1.0 speed). This means that the damage per second for the organ gun is reduced, because instead of going straight from firing one burst to the next, it has to take the time to fire each individual bullet and then reload, taking up about 5.45 seconds instead of just 3.45. About a third of that time is used just to finish firing the secondary bullets. This also makes it difficult for hitting and running (similar to the way archers fire, move forward, then fire again), because each bullet has to take time to fire.

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Would the devs really nerf organ guns without mentioning this in the patch notes. Need to test later.

Organs guns needs buffs not nerfs.

I thought it was pretty weird that they wouldn’t put the organ gun nerf in the patch, so I think it may be a bug.

It recudes their immediate damage in a same way a frame delay postpones the initial damage upon a new target. And since it now even drags the rate of fire for over 5 seconds, it’s a nerf.

I finally got and went to check it out myself. So it now shoots in either 3 or 4 volleys, and any volley seems to have a maximum of 2 projectiles. It never seems to take 5 volleys, atleast for as long as I cared to watch this act. So the rate of fire is not even consistent anymore, but clearly longer than before in either case. It is actually behaving exactly like the Chu Ko Nu is.

Found and used the Genie Editor the first time in my life and after an hour at looking at the possible variables I can’t understand what actually causes this for the organ gun.

Also since I have no clue how the values might have changed between the patches, the only thing I came to think of so far is the attack rate of the projectiles (not the unit’s attack rate) themselves, should it be 0 so they all go at once? Or how does that work. :smiley:

The class for the organ guns was changed from “Siege” (rams, mangonels, BBC) to “Ballista” (scorpions) for reasons that have to do with the AI.

These two classes share basically all the same properties, but I guess the fact that siege class units fire all their projectiles at once, while ballista class doesn’t, flew under the radar. Not going to lie I didn’t think of it either initially.


Will this be patched at some point?

So are Kipchaks classed differently than most? They fire all at once.

It’s complicated :sweat_smile: units that have 0 frame delay will fire all projectiles at once, regardless of class. That’s the case of Kipchaks.

However if a unit has a frame delay, which is the case of 95% of ranged units, projectiles will be fired in rapid succession (like chu ko nu), unless their are of the siege class.


I’m assuming with the 1 patch per month scedule, it will probably be fixed near the end of the month.

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I did a bit more testing with the organ gun, and I found another problem with the way organ now work. Now, when firing at at a unit, once the targeted unit dies, the organ gun stops firing the secondary bullet volleys. This means that if you fire into a group of halberdiers, and 4 organ guns target the same closest halb, the 4 initial 20 damage bullets will kill the unit. The 16 other bullets from the 4 organ guns are never fired. Before this bug, the organ guns would kill the unit, but the 16 other stray bullets would potentially deal 16 damage to the surrounding units. This effect really adds up when you have 60 organ guns firing into 60 enemy units.


I hope so, the organ gun used to be one of my favorite units, and this bug makes them a lot worse than they used to be.

This bug might be a good thing actually, since it brings the Portuguese and organ guns to the attention of the devs.

I am convinced that the feitoria buff wasn’t enough to fix the abysmal win rate at all times of the game before 60+ game length (aoestats pre de).

Winning because of the feitoria is often considered lame by my opponents. That’s why I would rather have the feitoria buff reverted and a conventional Portuguese buff.

Here is my suggestion for the organ gun buff:

  1. Change the extra bullet damage of the organ gun to 3 (4 for elite) ignoring any armor and dealing the full damage even when missing the intended target. Reduce the main bullet damate to 12 (also for elite).

Damage before, assuming all bullets hit the intended target:
16 + 4x2=24
20 + 4x2=28 (elite)

With my porposal:
12 + 4x3=24
12 + 4x4=28 (elite)

This change increases the spread damage on groups of enemy but keeps single target damage same.

Let’s assume all bullets miss the intended target and hit something else.
8 + 4x1=12
10+ 4x1=14 (elite)

And with my change:
6 + 4x3 = 18
6 + 4x4 = 22 (elite)

Compare this to heavy scorpions. I belive they deal 17 damage on the first target hit and 9 on any further pass throughs. Even if the scorpion hits just 2 targets, it’s damage is already =28. Hopefully this justifies that my proposal is not OP.

  1. Reduce the frame delay of the organ gun.

The delay could cause that if you moved the unit in the instant after the gun has visually fired, the short is canceled and no bullet is going off. Very weird and unsatisfying to micro (there is a video of viper complaining about this, I have the link saved somewhere in my laptop if needed)

I am unsure how this bug affects this graphic glitch, since I haven’t checked it out yet.

  1. If point 1. Is rejected, then consider to increase the range of elite organs by 1 so that the unit is able to compete better with heavy scorpions
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Though I did like the recent feitoria bonus, I really like your idea for the organ guns because it makes them even better against groups of enemies because of the 3 damage. I think it’d be really cool to see in the game!

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i just checked the organ guns and chu ku nu out in the scenario editor, they work exactlz same now.

non elite chu ku nu always fire 3 single arrow in a row
elite chu ku nu and organ guns fire a total of 5 arrow/bullets, but each volley the chu ku nu/ organ gun fire randomy 1-2 bullets together. THey keep shoting volleys until a total of 5 projectiles has been fired.

So ethe possible fire patterns for organ guns and elite chu ku nu are:
2 1 2
1 2 2
2 2 1
1 2 1 1
2 1 1 1
1 1 1 2
1 1 1 1 1

i was not able to reproduce the graphic glitch mentioned above under 2. with the frame delay which viper displayed in (but maybe i am just incapable)


Doesn’t this basically mean it’s a nerf because it doesn’t just fire all of the bullets at once?

i wouldnt call it a nerf as long as it was unintended. it is a bug to me with the side effect of a damage reduction.

Also the shoot animation has smoke coming out of every barrel. It makes no sense with the current/new behaviour. Hopefully they revert this soon.

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