so? remember, accuracy ALSO comes into play. and reloading time, etc.
those elephants, paladins etc are melee and have 100% accuracy.
the Janissaries do need a rebuff.
Janissaries have an incredible attack for both castle and imperial age (elite ones). I think yhe real problem about the turks is their lack of trash they’re dead when gold runs out. And, worse, they are the only civ with this problem
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Janissaries have only 5% less accuracy than hand cannoneers so they deal much more damage. And a bullet that misses its intended target but hit something else will deal 11 base damage… which is still more than an arb bolt! They have 1 more range, and I also recently found out that Janissaries have only 4 frame delay and Elite Janissaries have none! (while the HC’s is pretty big) So even with that lower accuracy the stats clearly aren’t a problem. However the cost might be the problem
My take on this:
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On another note I tested Turks skirms against FU generic crossbows and it looks like they did as good as Burmese, and Franks/Celts.
even if they are on par, dont those guys other trash units beat turks’ ones?
i think i agreee with the idea that turks were balanced around the game before imperial skirms and halbs arrived…
there’s a number of megarandom maps that appear in the ranked pool where there is either literally zero gold, or its amassed in the middle, either way resulting in trash wars from start to finish or putting the turks further on the back foot from the start…
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oooof that’s super harsh
yeah its a bit odd that they did it, i understand they do it to keep variety, but imo some like the lack of gold maps are just too much… widens the descerpency between elo even more, since vets can handle weirer situations even better than newbies… even without the turk issue
I think if the idea is to make them trash at trash wars (pun intended) then it’s okey they don’t get pikeman, since camels can counter kt line. But skirmishers are necessary wven when there’s gold. And don’t came with “you can counter archers with heavy CA” that’s not a counter. That’s just changing units. At the end, it’s convenient for the enemy
Give them Imperial Camels?
Well, they could use over the top camels, I won’t deny that
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Look, I only have two ideas for Turks and both are crazy. One if striped down Trash CA (No HCA upgrade, no P. Tactics, maybe no even no Thumb ring) and the other is Imperial Camels. And the second one is something you suggested.
Although third idea, why not both?
With Trash CA that cost Wood and Food, you could pair it with Imperial Camels for a strong late game force. Or Champions.
I think in this case, my ideas were wilder xP
I mean, i don’t like the idea of trash CA. Their CA are amazing. Better camels could be a good option though
And gold intensive.
Besides Hussar, the Turk have a lot trouble keep an army going that isn’t reliant on gold. It’s hard to put together a balanced army in a one on one match.
With Trash CA, you can add them to most forces without having to create a super heavy gold eco.
It also gives them an option on in which gold is hard to come by, or block off, or just run out.
We have seen how much a boon trash Crossbows can be for Persians, another gold heavy civ.
Watch the 3rd game in this series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-wJIHJdznM&t=8249s, Malian vs Celts). Tatoh decided to play Celts as a kind of bootleg Mongols, by going full Hussar+HCA. Even tho his hussars lacked 2 upgrades and his HCA lacked 5 (!!!) look how long he resisted (he even put Mbl in difficulty many times). Now bear in mind that in a straight fight the Celt HCA is the single worst one in the game. It even loses to the Teuton CA! (even tho to be fair, the lack of husbandry and not getting at least LC make the Teuton CA even harder to use in practice).
So basically, to have an acceptable trash CA, you would need to mutilate the whole tech tree super hard. You would need to nerf the archer blacksmith (and if you remove one armor upgrade, then you nerf the HC/janissary) or nerf their Hussars, by removing tons of cav upgrades, which would hurt the Turk’s pretty good cav. So basically the Turks would get 4 trash units… that all suck, and would no longer have such good gold units. Also, it would force them into bombard cannons and bombard towers, and they would no longer have their above-average versatility. And lastly, the fact they are good in team games will be completely gone.
Welp, normal camels are more than enough for the civ that gets longer range BBC that have more HP (ie.they are better defended from enemy attacks), and that get a hand cannoneer with TWENTY-TWO attack (ie.it’s equal to FU Elite shotel warrior and FU +4 relics lithuanian cav. All that by just clicking the Elite janissary button) Cavalry can kill them eventually, but not without good numbers and getting a huge dent in their HP first.
When I saw original bonus I thought %50 more hp on gunpowder units like in AoK. But I saw suicide forces. Don’t you think this is disrespectful and not historical? I think telling a civilization suicide forces not good. At least for Tatars there is just a Meme Camel.
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i think people who say turks skirm better than franks and celts skirm, are miss some point. Franks have best paladin and celts have perfect siege bonus to counter archers however what turks have? So the idea is meaningless.
I wanted to create a new post instead of reviving an old thread, hope I’m not wrong here.
Just now in SOTL yt video I discussed with other players that Turks can have their Janissaries to toggle between ranged and melee, where melee is they’re able to use halberds to counter cavalry during the late game. I think this is interesting since it buffs Turks late game to counter something, and it’s historically correct. 
I think this won’t be too strong since the “Halberdiers” are not trash units.
If we are going for one of a kind civ go for something like the Khmer farm bonus. Basically, just bring in ideas from other Age games.
Imagine necroing a thread about buffing Turks after they are buffed.
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turks unique tech artillery is useless.
remove artillery + give siege engineers to turks + introduce imperial bbc to turks (and maybe some other civs)
I don’t think it’s useless, shooting from further away is better in almost any situation I can think of, but losing the damage bonus and extra range on all the other siege is also a pretty big negative(which you won’t be making any or much of because they can’t upgrade it), Turks just don’t seem very weak after they reach imperial age and get cannons, it’s before they get there or if they can’t end the game and run out of gold that they fall off compared to others, if they get any kind of buff at all I wouldn’t want it in the imperial age where they’re already average or better than many others, feudal/castle or post imperial after resources used up might be ok if it isn’t a major buff