Just some Ideas for the original factions to get a Persia unique unit upgrade.
Sorry, I know some people don’t like the Savar, I think it’s cool
The charge attack cool-downs would be dependant on the units for balance reason and the units would largely be the same as original outside of that.
Britons:
Foot-Knight - replaces Champion - equipped with poleaxe, charge attack switches to hammer side and ignores armour
I love the unit suggestions but I disklike ignoring armor and charge attack…we already have too many of those. Ignoring armor needs to go really, upgrading armor is a core part of the game yet I keep seeing the dev add stuff that discourages upgrading armor…
Really like this approach to give old civs a refresh.
Turks: Sipahi UT name replaced, Sipahi Lancer replace Hussar. Same stats than hussar but gain +1 range. Which results in trash Steppe lancer with -5hp, -4 attack.
Vikings: Bogsveigar UT name replaced. Bogsveigar replace Arbalest. Same stats than arbalest but gain HP regen ability (half of berserker’s rate)
What about respecting the original creators of these civilizations by not touching their masterpieces?
It’s fine to make some balance adjustments like slightly tweaking unit stats, civilization bonuses, or something. But it’s not okay to fundamentally change them when these civilizations are already working perfectly.
Only the Turks need changes to have an answer against elephants (and strong camels to some extent). Because Turks weren’t designed in 1999 to deal with either 300 HP ranged elephants or 320 HP conversion-resistant battle elephants. It wasn’t part of the deal. Had the Turks been designed today, they would’ve had either Halberdiers, Elite Skirmishers, or another answer.
Despite the obvious issue, I still don’t want to give them Pikemen or Elite Skirmishers and fundamentally change them. That’s why I think the most practical solution is making Turk Camels deal extra damage to the elephant armor class.
These Civs have already had multiple balances changes since the original AOE2 release, from conquerors to HD to DE and beyond. Whether these were good changes is open to interpretation I suppose
The Georgians should have the Svan Tower replace their Keep. There is already the visual.
The special capability of pass-through damage will become a part of the Svan Tower building. And there can have a new UT.
Some copied from my concept topic for eagle civ
Remake the Slinger to a trash regional unit of pre-Columbian American civs. Cheap and easy to gather (cost 25 food and 25 wood for example). Has only 30 HP, 2 basic attack, and +5 attack against infantry. Maybe affected by Atlatl and Hul’che Javelineers.
For the Inca, the Slinger can uniquely be upgraded to Waraka (or Huaraka) Slinger in the Imperial Age.
Rename the current Eagle line units to the Scout Infantry → Light Infantry → Shock Infantry, and give them new skins. Make them a little more generic to apply to non-Aztec as well as non-American civs like Bantu Africans.
For the Aztecs, replace the Light Infantry and Shock Infantry with new Eagle Warrior and new Elite Eagle Warrior. The new one might have +5 HP than the Light Infantry, and the new Elite one might have +10 HP and +1 pierce armor than the Shock Infantry.
For the Inca, have the Chasqui trainable in Barracks in the Dark Age and automatically upgraded to Scout Infantry when hitting the Feudal Age.
It can have 7 LoS, 5 attack and 40 HP. (For reference, Scout Infantry in the Dark Age has 5 LoS, 4 attack and 50 HP.) The game is started with 1 Chasqui instead of 1 Scout Infantry.
I guess the Champion is originally referring to the British foot knight.
I’d stand with @SMUM15236 here.
Longbowman and Elite Longbowman replace Crossbowman and Arbalester respectively.
Billman as new UU in Castles.
Why buff them? Their Halberdiers are already very useful.
Before the Dragon Ship becoming the unique upgrade for Chinese, I had suggested to replace the current Fire Galley line with a Boarding Galley → Boarding Warship → Fast Boarding Warship line for all civs, so that the Byzantines can have Fire Ship and Fast Fire Ship replace the Boarding Warship and Fast Boarding Warship respectively, or even also have Fire Galley replace the Boarding Galley so that the entire line can be unique. Perhaps this could still be adopted and the Dragon Ship could become a UU in the Imperial Age.
On the other hand, it could be nice to have the Dromedarii and Elite Dromedarii replace the Camel Rider and Heavy Camel Rider. Compared with the Camels, they will have a more European skin instead of the Middle Eastern look. They can be cheaper at base so the discount bonus would no longer need to affect and mention the Camels. Meanwhile the Camels will no longer be available for Europeans. Also, the Romans might have access to the non-Elite Dromedarii so that they would become regional units too.
The claymore is a kind of two-handed sword so it can just replace the Two-handed swordsman and Champion like the Legionary.
The gallowglasses were attractive to the Irish nobles as heavily armored, trained infantry to be relied upon as a strong defense for holding a position. I’d like to make the Gallowglass more defensive rather than having a charge ability. Maybe it could have a mode that reduces the speed by 30% in exchange for receiving less damage from siege weapons by 50%, being able to build towers and being healed faster by the Stronghold by 50%.
Arbalest is a Medieval French word, so having the normal Arbalester could be accurate enough and I think that won’t brake the balance as they lack the critical techs like Thumb Ring, Ring Armor and Bracer.
We should not buff the Paladin anymore for the Franks.
After the Throwing Axeman becomes a regional unit for the European Barbarian civs, maybe, I say maybe, the Frankish Paladin can become the UU in Castles, fairly expensive, taking long for training, no ability and having a limit of 12 like the Twelve Peers of the court of Charlemagne. Although it is a hero unit, it’s not referring to any specific person and has no ability, literally just a powerful cavalry, so I guess it could be acceptable, and because of the limit the Paladins are still needed.
If the Teppo Ashigaru has to become a UU, I think it should have better price, speed or rate of fire instead of armors. It’s just that I think the Hand Cannoneer can represent the teppo.
Personally I’d choose Ninja as the second UU. There is the visual already.
It can be a expensive shock infantry unit trainable in Castles in the Imperial Age. Enemy players can only see it within 4 tiles from their units.
After the Ninja become trainable, I’d add the Sōhei into the editor. It’s a warrior monk armed with a naginata, can heal, carry Relics, attack and have bonus vs cavalry.
I don’t know. The HP has to be low or the bonus HP has to be removed in exchange for the charge attack otherwise it will be broken. And it’s quite generic. Even it can be balanced in the Mongols tech tree, other nomadic civs would be asked for access to it, then it could be broken there.
Remember there is a camel drummer mentioned in the campaign? “The ambush was always announced by the naqara, a huge drum carried into battle on a camel. A hundred times a hundred times has the naqara sounded on this day.”
If the Naqara could be a trainable unit…
The Crusader Knight is trainable for the AI players in Castles in the campaign.
If it can also be trainable in Castles in normal games, it could be very useful to fast aging rush but having no elite upgrade would still force the player to eventually transition to Paladins or Teutonic Knights. I think this way could be more interesting than replacing the Paladin.
Personally, I’d like to have the Landsknecht replace the Two-Handed Swordsman and Champion, since their UU is a stronger infantry that could make people rarely use the swordsman line.
The Landsknecht could have a charge bar for dealing a blast attack by slashing in a wide area (without additional damage), so that it might be good at against archers and especially spearmen like how they fought against swiss pikemen in history.
It’s a bit strange to see foot samurai is locked in Castles while mounted samurai can directly be train in normal military buildings.
Replace the Hussar? You just mean the scout cavalry line simply gains +1 range in the Imperial Age. That’s unacceptable. Their scout cavalry line already has benefit from multiple effects.
I would like to have a new cavalry directly replace their scout cavalry line. It would has 1 more pierce armor than the general scout cavalry line and would have shadow upgrades whenever hitting a new age. So that, the bonuses can be removed.
It could be named to something generic, such like Turcoman Horseman or Turcoman Raider, for improving the civ’s representative before Ottoman Empire. If a gimmick is needed, maybe it can very slowly generate gold when attacking units.
Not a fan. It’s weird to see their infantry from Barracks cannot regenerate but their archers from Archery Ranges can when they are a infantry civ.
Similar to the Teutons, since their UU is a stronger infantry that could make people rarely use their Two-Handed Swordsman and Champion, I’d like to introduce the Nordic Shieldman, or Ulfhedinn/Jofurr Warrior, to replace the Long Swordsman (and the elite to replace the Two-handed Swordsman and Champion). It will be a warrior holding a round shield and wearing a wolf coat (Ulfhednar) or a boar helmet (Jofurr), having lower attack but higher pierce armor than the Long Swordsman.
The Aztecs, Japanese and Sicilians have a similar situation.
For the Aztecs, the Butterfly Warrior, or Papalotl Warrior, can be introduced to replace the Long Swordsman (and the elite to replace the Two-Handed Swordsman and Champion), having lower base attack but a attack bonus against cavalry. Although the bonus is lower than the Spearman line, it would be better able to face a variety of situations.
The papalotl (lit. butterfly) warriors were the third type of elite warrior to feature an explicitly animal theme. The member of them had taken three captives until he captured the fourth and were promoted to a jaguar warriors.
For the Sicilians, I’ve suggested to have the Serjeants replace the entire Militia line so that the Donjon can share basically same units with the Barrack. Then, have the Vavasseur replace the Serjeant in Castles. It could be similar to Serjeant but having better stats and higher cost, and could build Castles instead of Donjons maybe.
Of the ‘military’ ranks in Norman Social Organisation and Feudalism, the lowest rank was the Sergens , a professional footsoldier, literally ‘one who serves’. Above the Sergens was the Vavasseur , a soldier who equated to a squire, and who would have probably served a particular knight.
For the Japanese, I have to admit I have no any good idea now.
Maybe instead of them having the Heavy Camel Rider upgrade, they could have an unique upgrade of the Camel Rider called Gunpowder Camel or Zamburak which would have an extra bonus against the elephant armor class?
Not sure if this is historically accurate or not, but it fits their gunpowder theme quite nicely.
Even Turks having fully upgraded Heavy Camels isn’t historically accurate, and adding another upgrade on top of that would be a bridge too far. Sure, it doesn’t need to be 100% historically accurate, but it would be immersion-breaking.
It would be a perfect idea if it at least had some historical roots.
Another idea is giving Turks a gold-cost version of the Pikeman. It wouldn’t be as effective against cavalry as Heavy Camels, but it would be much better against elephants.
By the way, here’re some of my proposed regional upgrades and regional units, you can guess which civs they’re supposedly for or from which region
Paper Armored Pikeman Stats
HP: 60
Cost: 35 Food 25 Wood
Melee Attack: 5
Attack Bonuses: +30 vs Cavalry; +26 vs War Elephant; +22 vs Camel; +20 vs Ship; +20 vs Fishing Ship; +11 vs Mameluke; +2 vs Eagle Warrior; +1 vs Standard Building
Reload Time: 3
Range: 0.5
Melee Armor: 0
Pierce Armor: 1
Armor Classes: Infantry / Spearman
Speed: 1.05
LOS: 7
Special Ability: Would only receive 60% of damage from ranged or pierce attacks
Fire Lancer Stats
HP: 55 / 60 (elite)
Cost: 50 Food 50 Gold
Melee Attack: 3 / 4 (elite)
Attack Bonuses: +8 / +10 (elite) vs Stone Defense, +4 / +5 (elite) vs Building, +4 vs Siege Weapon
Reload Time: 0.25
Attack Delay: 0
Range: 4 / 5 (elite)
Accuracy: 75%
Projectile Speed: 3
Melee Armor: 1
Pierce Armor: 2 / 3 (elite)
Armor Classes: Infantry / Siege Weapon
Speed: 0.9
LOS: 7
Bow Monk Stats
HP: 50
Cost: 25 Food 65 Gold
Pierce Attack: 5
Attack Bonus: +3 vs Monk
Reload Time: 3
Attack Delay: 0.5
Range: 5
Healing Range: 4
Accuracy: 100%
Projectile Speed: 7
Melee Armor: 0
Pierce Armor: 1
Armor Classes: Monk / Archer
Speed: 0.8
LOS: 10
Special Ability: When attacking enemy units (excluding buildings) he has a 25% chance to convert the enemy unit if his attacks drop the said unit’s HP to below 40% of its original HP (effect doesn’t stack)
Apsara Dancer Stats
HP: 40
Cost: 80 Gold
Melee Armor: 0
Pierce Armor: 0
Armor Class: Monk
Speed: 0.9
LOS: 10
Abilities: Passively heal all friendly units in a 10 tile radius by 50 HP/minute; passively decrease the attack speed of all enemy units by 15% again in a 10 tile radius (effects aren’t stackable)
Ballcourt Stats
HP: 2200
Cost: 200 Wood 200 Stone
Size: 4x4
Melee Armor: 2 (Castle) / 3 (Imperial)
Pierce Armor: 9 (Castle) / 10 (Imperial)
Armor Classes: Building / Standard Building
LOS: 6
Special Ability: Able to boost the HP and attack of your and your allies’ infantry units. For 20 Food and 20 Gold, it would allow you or your teammates to garrison one infantry unit inside and train it for 30 seconds, and once done the unit would get +5 HP and +1 attack. Each infantry unit can only be trained once, and the ones that already got trained would have a small badge on top of them indicating their trained status. The max training batch allowed each time is 5 infantry units, and with 5 units the training time would also increase to 150 seconds and the cost would increase to 100 Food and 100 Gold.
Sipahi. Could be used by Hindustani(historically Mughals had knights whom they simply say “Sipahi”). Would’ve added Persians too if Savar didnt became a thing.
I don’t like this idea because it changes the style of AoE2 too much. I like the way how the unit convention goes. Like this isn’t AoE4. While both games take place during the same timeframe (medieval era), this is a completely different game that was built on the genie engine.
I completely disagree with giving every civis unique upgrades for the sake of doing it.Only thing I would like to see is the meso unit roster becoming more unique as they would not use the standard europe units at all.
Eg xbow units getting replaced with archer units.swords spears are pretty generic anyway.
I like the idea, but so many of these are clear rips from aoe4 - borrowing from other games somehow takes alot of the the fun out of a thing.
Consider:
Britons - Ranger: All purpose infantry capable of ranged and melee combat.
Celts - Hobelar: Mounted melee skirmisher - good vs archers and spears. Attacks faster at lower hp
Franks - Macemen: Slow, but powerful infantry. High damage, but slow attack rate. Good vs high melee armor units, weak to ranged units.
Goths - Shortswordsman: Weak, fast infantry with a high attack rate.
Teutons - Landsknecht: Expensive gunpowder infantry. Reduced range, but stronger in melee.
Vikings - Sheildbearer: Cheap melee infantry with high melee armor and low attack. Take less melee damage when in large numbers.
Byzantines - Clibanarii: Low damage, high armor cavalry that can block projectiles (like hussite wagons, NOT shrivamsha).
Persians - Silahdhar: Heavy armored infantry with a two handed axe. Excels vs foot units, weak vs heavy cavalry.
Saracens - Fire ballista: Unique scorpion replacement. Longer range, arced trajectory. High damage, single target. Bonus damage vs siege weapons and ships.
Turks - Siladhar: Extra upgrade for scout line after Hussar (another jump, like scout to light cav). Deals more and takes less damage to/from cavalry units.
Chinese - Flaming Ox: Petard upgrade. Faster, more hp, deals more damage to siege weapons.
Japanese - Wokou: Weak trash infantry with bonus damage vs vilagers and buildings.
Mongols - Torguud: Unique paladin upgrade. Less melee armor, more attack. Attacks faster as hp depletes
Literally the same word, and also a Unit the Franks don’t have access to.
I know they historically should, and it’s even their UU in AoE4, but it would destroy AoE2 balance.
The Paladin is an inherently French unit
I would rather do the opposite, replace every other Paladin!
For the Cumans and Huns it should be something less European looking. The Huns Paladin should have less Pierce Armour to make it more distinct from their UU.
Magyars and Lithuanians ones could have wings.
Burgundians can keep the current Paladin since they are close enough to the Franks.
Byzantines would be a tough choice because they already have a cavalry UU. Their unique Paladin could be given to the Armenians too though.
Maybe the Spanish one could have a bonus vs. Camels or Cavalry to show the reconquista.
Teutons are the obvious choice with the Crusader Knight.
The Celts are the most difficult one probably because it’s the worst Paladin in the game.
The Franks one still has to be the best overall of course.
