Watch this game. See how I just literally sit in base and do nothing all game and then still win?
botto.age3Yrec (10.7 MB)
Otto was originally designed as a low-eco but high value unit civ. Since then, powercreep has made the units even more high value but also made the eco ridiculous as well. It’s hard to overstate how good free, auto training villagers are. The mental load a player has to expend managing their eco is so much less. You can just endlessly have perfect villager production even when idled and doing other things. The food you need to spend normally on vills is also available to make your units and send spahi. Despite the fact that Otto doesn’t have any obvious super late game eco strengths like torps or shrines, in 1v1 it has possibly the best practical eco in the game just by the ability to spawn vills endlessly.
One of these things needs to be toned down. I like Otto as a civ that has very strong, expensive units, so I think that should stay. Therefore I am proposing these nerfs to slow down the Otto eco, which is just ridiculous right now.
-
remove capitalism. Otto players don’t need yet another way to get res while being idled. They already have another viable age 1 card thats not 3v, silk road. This makes crates super strong but at least you can idle crates with pressure.
-
Increase the cost of mosque training techs. Both the train speed and the cap techs. A model could be Japan’s civ design-- they can gather food in base but at some point they have to invest a whole shipment to replenish the cherry orchards. Mosque techs should feel about as consequential, maybe.
-
Remove 2 tcs in age IV, or at least make it so it doesn’t increase the TC cap. This card is just such a great way to turtle and boom with zero effort.
11 Likes
Unfortunately your game goes out of sync once you get the second tc up but I can imagine what happens from there.
I don’t think capitalism itself is the problem, you are after all skipping 3v for it or delaying an age 2 shipment and otto starting eco is trash, if you lose a vill in a raid it is like 20% of your eco.
I also don’t think the techs are the issue because they’ve already been increased in cost.
I do agree that the 2 tc card in age 4 should not increase build limit as that has been removed for many other civs so they should remove the increased build limit from the card.
My suggestion for otto was to potentially remove the spahi age up and/or change the cost of spahi cards from food to equivalent in gold so if it is 1k food now change that to 800 gold or something. Ottoman easily can afford shipments that cost food while maintaining full vill production due to all the food saved from free villagers so changing the card to have an equivalent coin cost would have a significant effect in reducing all the spahi spam.
Spahi spam is fun though. It fits the civ feel-- very strong high damage units. Thats always what otto has been about. But the eco also being strong is the newer change that make the civ just generically too powerful, rather than being specifically powerful in a way that fits the civ flavor.
As a broader issue there’s a trend in aoe3 to make all civs have equally strong eco options and it should be resisted.
Well you can still send them and get them from church techs it will just be more of a strain on your eco if the shipment cost gold just like how they did with the church techs swapping cost to gold. Otto eco is very efficient food wise, not so much with gold even if they have capitalism.
They have tried to nerf the eco making villagers build tc’s much slower and removing the age 3 tc wagon.
Ottoman just are too good at everything, musketeer is like the most cost effective in the game with all the cards, delis beat hussars, abus beat everything, combat carded artillery that can survive an extra shot. Which would be fine if like you said they had a bad eco, but free vills just scales so well with multiple tcs. Maybe just remove 1 of the vill speed techs.
1 Like
Having urban centers cost 600 wood again is enough of an indirect nerf to civilization.
The eco is literally the only Ottoman thing that isn’t overtuned.
2 Likes
Not really, it nerfs all civs and if you FI with otto and ship the 2 tc wagons then you’re only building another 2 at most for a grand cost of 200w extra.
1 Like
An FI with a single urban center?
Yeah, very easy with ottoman just capitalism, age up with 500f and gather the remaining food then ship 700g and age then all on food again ship 1k coin and you’re in industrial extremely fast, all while still producing villagers. You don’t build extra tc’s when doing an FI or it would not be an FI. Once you hit industrial you can ship 2 tc wagon, maybe you shipped 1k wood in transition and you start building the 2 additional tcs with explorer, not with vills as they’re too inefficient now.
1 Like
Well, I don’t think it’s broken, and neither is the triple CT in age III. Increasing the price of urban centers would be enough. And although it would affect all civilizations, remember that Ottomans cannot send TC wagons at age 3.
Nah, it’s worse for other civs. In age 4 with factories it’s so much cheaper to build 600w TC than it is for civs in age 3.
If anything, just increase the cost for Ottoman TCs. It’d be very easy to have a shadow tech that increases their TC cost to 600.
1 Like
Buffing the trickle cards was a pretty bad move, especially if they are worth 3 vils of eco.
at best they should be only 2, maybe 2.5 if we are generous but 3 was definitely too much
Ottomans were never about strong high damage units…
Ottomans were about a focus on artillery units and abus with a core of tanky janissaries which had higher HP but lower damage than other musks to protect the artillery from cav. Spahi were meant to supplement by providing a tanky cav unit that can deal with skirms and catch enemy artillery so your abus don’t get blown away. Honestly biggest problem with ottomans isn’t their eco it’s their units being so ridiculously strong now. Ottoman late game eco is meh due to missing 1 estate card, and early game is bad. Ottomans are so dominant in the mid game because it’s both when their eco kicks in and when their strong units start to shine.
1 Like
i feel like you’ve omitted abus here
2 Likes