I created this post to closely monitor the discussion about the Ottomans. Many people approached me complaining about the large amount of spam and other unpleasant situations that are experienced here for this matter.
Please excuse the inconvenience.
I support this thread 100%.
Well if other ottoman threads automatically get killed then maybe they can at least contain it to one. Maybe even kill his comments in this one quick enough to keep the thread on topic. It’s been ruining the forum for way too long.
As for the Ottomans:
So far they seem very strong overall. They are fun to play. They have some nice timing pushes. The Vizier points are cool, although a couple may need some slight balancing.
Changes I’d guess could be coming:
Mehter nerf, either the move speed or attack speed, or both
Grand Galley rework. Currently It’s basically never worth using its military school function. It can’t get boosted by influence, can’t swap back and forth, and doesn’t show the progress of the current unit. Personally, I would just give it a toggle that when turned on made any units trained at any military school appear inside the ship instead (only one grand galley could have this turned on at a time).
A small Jannisary buff or tweak. They seem very good in niche situations, but maybe a little too niche.
For the Great Bombard I’m not sure. It’s very cool and fun to use, but may need something. I’d hesitate to give it more range because it could become oppressive, but currently culverins seem to counter it very effectively. Maybe too effectively considering the cost and how slow it is to push with.
I dont really like the vizier system that much. It starts out strong, But degenerates into “buff your military schools” rather than actually interesting choices. And that one time shipment of janissaries…
all the things we disscuss the thread i opened all is gone now
what nerf its not op move speed doesnt apply always you are speaking without playing them i guess
thats right their only advantage is you can have them at age 3 they have nothing special other than that
i hope they find a way to work it out in my opininon they need more health or they need 5 range like all the archers or most of the people say they must combined with mehter so when near them mehter could give them a attack bonus too or if they dont want to change stats they can maybe lower the training time even more
i think they are fine ottomans needs culverin tho and a horse archer giving them those 2 dont unbalance the game and make them super strong so just give them these devs
Really?, wow!
So the devs took their creative liberties:
Well, as I like to take screenshots, to admire the beautiful art of some cities I build, I also take screenshots of units to see what weapons they use after certain technologies, here are some curiosities, the weapon used by the janissaries in “Spanish”.
Well, in English it is “trench gun”. Look in various sources, and as you mentioned the Ottomans in the middle ages still used arquebuses and muskets. There is a mention on wikipedia that they used a “trench gun”. I checked the source, and I saw that it was an Osprey book, by David Nicolle, “Jenissaries” 1995.
I got screenshots of excerpts from the book, and found this on page 21:
In other words, that trench gun was a weapon from the 18th! 18th century! What an anachronism. The downside is that even though it’s an 18th century weapon, it’s not as powerful as it should be, at least also against melee infantry (that’s why I suggested increasing a bonus vs melee infantry).
Well anyway, it’s not like the book weapon were a real trench gun (as the original Winchester Model 1897 aka:Trench-Gun), it’s the name given to it by those who made the book because of its resemblance to one (the put the name in beetwen quotation marks). In theory the Ottoman arquebuses and muskets were different from the Western European arquebuses. I suppose that since it is not a traditional arquebus and less a hand cannon, they gave it that name in Spanish.
Here is another capture from the same book, pages 21 and 22 where he explains the evolution of the Janissary weaponry. As far as ranged weapons go, it looks like they skipped the “hand cannon” step, and went straight from the Bow to the matchlook Arquebus. As a peculiarity, their barrels were longer than Western arquebuses and had heavier bullets (20-80 grams).
The movespeed is from the Vizier point. It is extremely strong as is the attack speed.
I’m pretty sure every pro thinks it’s OP right now.
Why add crap like this to your comment? It makes you seem hostile and incapable of having a discussion or forming an argument without attacking someone’s credibility.
I have played them, I have watched them played a lot. As I said the highest level players seem to consider the Mehter to be very, very strong. Watch some of their streams if you don’t believe me.
Well they actually have decent damage, they shoot 3 cannon balls. They can also carry 25 units. It’s mainly the military school aspect of them that is useless. They may also be a bit too expensive.
move speed only apllys in formation when you break the formation they dont get move speed and if the attack speed was op then delhi needs to defeat everyone and i didnt see any pro said its op
because the way you speak i come to this conclusion you dont know that mehter move speed bonus applies in formation when you break the formation even if you are near the mehter it doesnt gives speed bonus you dont know this you are claiming you played you probably hear something like that from someone writing here
yes thats the why i said their only advantage is getting them at age 3 most of the civs get their gunpowder ships at age 4 and yes little bit expensive compared to other gunpowder ships
There are some that feel mandatory. Maybe some of those later ones should also involve shipments to be more interesting.
The janissary one seems very, very niche. It is the only one that does not have any permanent beneft as well.
Great Bombard is too OP in late game with all the buffs and upgrades. Give it 1 more range and we’d see the old oppressive “Chinese bombard meta” returned (see my analysis in another post). They should definitely not have the Culverin neither, but maybe ok to have a dumbed down version of Culverin with lower HP, attack speed and damage for balance reason. Why? Because Otto sieges stack attack speed bonuses from mehter and garrisoning (+15% and +25% respectively) and can be repaired by Jans who also counter Cavalry flanking so that’s very oppressive.
I believe that currently the attack speed does not stack properly with siege crews and mehter?
I do think they need to fix that before making balance changes.
I would:
totally agree with all comments needs to be fixed. Also auto producing that fast… RTS losing its beauty. you dont even need to think about finding the barracks or achery to queue.
The Ottomans definitely cannot rely on their auto produced units. They still need plenty of production buildings just like everyone else.
The free units just help supplement their army and save resources.
Definitely agree
The mehters will have to be nerfed the moment they fix the bug, and people suddenly realise how good their siege and sipahi actually are with the bug gone.
Hoping we get both, the mehter itself needs to be slower /easier to kill. And the ROF Aura will need tweaking specifically when it comes to siege
I think Jans might need to take less bonus damage, but return their “ranged” class, as it’s counter intuitive. Maybe up castle age dmg slightly to compensate.
I don’t think the unit necessarily needs to change though , it might be flaws elsewhere, and the unit keeps its niche, that still needs to be explored (like landsneks)
Maybe GBBC need to become slightly cheaper, but do less damage? Again, once mehters work properly this is a direct buff we aren’t aware of.
Maybe add something like increased dmg on Jans? The number of Jan’s provided could maybe scale with age? ie +1/2/3 per age per school depending on which age you take it
Again, just fixing the mehter aura, will make the siege crew Viz point more impactful, as they currently don’t stack, and the fix makes for more impactful decisions
That being said, Viz points are a whole layer that other civs don’t get, so even if they become lacklustre as the game goes on, it’s still more than other civs get
tbh, I dont see issue with jans. nor the tradelandmark.
For whoever said they NEVER see pro players use Jans.
regardless, amazing game, Really fun to see Tradebuild similar to mine be pitched against classic 2TC builds.
Especially on the map Altai which i keep telling my friends they should opt for trade, especially if you play Civs with trade bonus.
In other words, It’s actually an ECO bonus more than anything.
each Military school in essence providing approx around 100 food + gold/wood per minute in effectiveness.
So when you have 5 military schools, you in essence have +500 food + gold/wood per minute, which is pretty insane when you think about it.
their siege not buged i tested it works with the siege
this wont solve the problem either they need more health or more range
In concept it’s fine.
Unlike other civs you can’t get access to all your UTs, even if you spend a landmark on it - but you aren’t restricted by age, resource cost, or research time. It’s the 3 vizier point military school tax (because you aren’t neglecting your main eco bonus) and the mostly useless janissary shipment that I object to.
Jans don’t really need more damage, they just have too wide a range of counters and too little in the way of staying power.
