I dont understand why some of you keep telling that Otto early age and FF is strong. Noone, or almost noone disagrees with that. For this reason, people who wants buff for the Ottos ask for a late game buff.
-Give back Abus 22 range and 3 ROF with guard and imperial upgrades like they had before.
-Acemi Oglan card can give Jans 5% or 10% hp an attack.
I think these 2 easily will resolve Otto late game and treaty game problems
Abus with 22 range would be OP.
Ottomans is also currently OP in team games. Mainly because of the boom of 4 TCs, the nizams and the great bombards.
I agree with your suggestions, but at least increase the TC cost for Ottomans to 600 wood (like the Lakota, which costs them 400w) and slightly increase the production time of bombards in factories.
The nizams need balance, but I’m not sure how.
They are currently OK, 4TC is a pretty decent boom. Buffing their units will make them OP in high ELO.
I don’t understand people saying 20+ range on imperial abus would be op. they get out scaled by skirms against heavy infantry and light cavalry, and by artillery against ranged infantry. exactly what do you expect late game otto to build to counter warwagons, eagle runners and rifle riders?
leather cannons deal more damage in 2 aoe with 0 negative multipliers at 23 range in imperial, with a 3x bonus vs all infantry, 1.5 bonus vs ships and a 3.0 rof. 2 pop space after a card. their raw hp is nearly 50% higher and their ranged hp is double that of abus. their main attack is also their siege attack. leather cannons counter light cavalry better than abus, tanking more damage despite the 2x multiplier from light cavalry and dealing far more damage back at greater range, a faster rof and in an aoe.
meanwhile abus have 0 aoe, less range, and a malus vs all units including villagers and ships except infantry, and a bonus only vs heavy infantry. their siege damage is also pathetic. that 40 base damage only applies to light infantry, it’s essentially a lie espicially with that 3.5 rof. Abus really only have 17 damage at 3.0 rof with a .5x malus vs villagers, a 1.5x bonus vs light cavalry and ships, a 2x bonus vs light infantry and a 3x bonus vs heavy infantry. I don’t think there is a unit in the game with more negative multipliers.
at any rate I’m fine with 16 range abus in age 2 to encourage more micro counterplay early on, as well as dropping their hp to 120 as they are too tanky against melee units.
but their range resistance and damage vs infantry and light cavalry especially need a boost to be even close to other ranged infantry per pop, their cost and value per pop needs to go up as well, and their range per upgrade needs to be higher.
But most importantly their base damage, rof and multipliers need to be adjusted so its clear what to expect generally, having 4 negative multipliers and doing base damage to only a single unit class is unreal in any non-indie video game. Its being opaque and reducing game clarity for the sake of it, like eagle runners.
abus have so many multipliers to negate their siege damage they may as well just do ranged damage at this point
the car archer vil modifier turns otto into one of the best vill raiding civs of the legacy game.
Abus + horse archer are pretty effective vs warwagons. Since Abus deal direct siege damage and archer got multipliers for cav type.
I remember back in the days when Abus had not that strong negative multipliers, they were killing machines in mass numbers. Their true siege damage vs any unit was insane, countering cav even in large numbers.
Their role was never to be a skirmisher, they more like a ‘sniper’ support unit. You should stop sending them vs skirmishers and make cannons since Otto have one of the best artillery.
cav archer only have bonus against heavy cav, not against light range cav, which war wagons are classified as
Because they would dominate skirmishers at 22 range, and siege damage.
What they should do is lower damage and increase attack speed to 3.0 and this will fix abus gun completely.
Abus don’t need damage nerf, they alrdy are low hp have bad pop.
The civilization already has slow massing, because of high pop, time + res costs
(and need 2 buildings for an infantry combination) compared to other civs.
Probably Kaiser played most otto in the tournemnt and only won because he’s just much better than his enemy in an even matchup and had the knowledge how to play against the enemy civilization.
its 120hp for 2 pop
an skirmisher has like 100hp for 1 pop
this unit gets completly destroyed in any melee fight because of the high melee range I don’t know where this unit should be any better compared to any other skirm-unit
Warwagons have melee resist, so abus having siege dmg or ranged dmg doesn’t matter at all.
like already someone said, Cav Archers have only multipliers against melee cav and also have melee resist and are in best case even against Warwagons not effective counter unit against it
I think that bow cavalry should have against cavalry in general, and thus they could better deal with dragon type units. The weakness is that they have no tolerance for projectiles.
Increasing attack speed to 3, up from 3.5 and lowering damage to keep same DPS is actually a buff.
I just remember aoe3 ad Otto and I don’t want anything like it was. Ottoman are one of those civs that can stomp with one wrong digit.