Ottomans got nerfed more than 2x without a compensate buff

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
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Hi everyone, I’m top 30 on ladder in my 4 years of playing competitive Age of Empires 3, mostly ottomans

I don’t like the way ottomans are at the moment, they are just too slow

(the civ-units+eco)
Jans- hard nerfed in Age II, slow-building unit,
Huss- nerf on ressistance, costly unit,
Abus- I don’t really know where to start on this shit unit- a unit which is bad in late and not really any good against is counters alone, its like age 2 mercenary unit tbh. which just falls off with the game lenght:
Pop- ineffective, very-high costs, especially for a ottoman economy,also they got nerfed more than 3x for some fking reason.

Mosque nerf, 150 Wood instead of 100 is a headache anyways. Thanks for the 0,05XP/s more, it compensates the 100 Food/ Gathering time for the 50 Wood
Huss, Abus, Janns at same time is not any good compared to Russia, Brits, Chiese etc.

So the problem is, every following nerf didn’t got any compensate buff, the civ-special-shipments are just not competitive compared to other civs. :
5-Jans (Age II), 3-Huss (Age II), No skirm shipment in Age II, which feels missing would be probably 2 Abus or something like that :slight_smile:
5-Jans used to be a OK card while the Jannisaries where very strong, just like the british 6-Musks card
but at the moment the 1 Less Jannisary is weaker than the british-Musks card for example.

Age III: Only Civ-special millitary shimpents- janns and 5 Spahis are O.K.
Abus, Huss, Grens (trash unit) too weak, Mamelukes is litteraly the card which normally helps ur ass out against any compesition because they tank and help the Janns doing something instead of dying to skirms lmao

My balance recommandations are as following:
Giving ottomans any good raid-unit like the raider, which helps to play on the map because they lack really hard considering the fact, they must play on the map (not like Inca, Dutch, Russia,…) because of TPs and the only viable way playing them is at the moment a ALL-IN Rush, or FF, FI but all ressources in it, its a
“all or nothing” and thats the main point I want to change on this civ compared to Russia, where they have tons more other plays with some kind of similar techniques (look forward tohome-city cards for example or the unit weaknesses)
50 wood/gold/100W/100G more at game beginning which would help giving Ottos to play an Boom like other civs
5 Jans-> 6 Jans (Age 2)
6 Abus-> 7 Abus(Age 3)
Change the 20% light arty hp to something else and change royal guard to Jans or Abus from the Grenadier
Age 3 Politicians:
Abus politician to 5 Abus atleast
Age 2: change this baloon politician to a discount on buildings/ships or upgrades

8 Likes
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Agree, Otto needs buffs. Give Otto abus rof 3 back and the bishop politician option of age 3 up.

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huss haven’t been nerfed in 15 years, idk what this is about

otherwise, yes otto has been hit hard. Abus are trash tier now. Jans had to be nerfed, the rush was just stupid- but the cards were never changed to compensate. The mosque thing is kinda just standardized with all other churchy buildings, and its also worth noting the vill techs were cheapened- opening mosque → vill tech is still 200w.

All civs with coin costing gunpowder skirms do not get a shipment in age 2, this has been in place since the beginning of aoe3. Abus shipment age 2 would break that design significantly.

I’d like to see abus completely reverted, and given a proper multi against ranged cavalry so they actually do their job against them (from 0.75x current to probably 1.0 or 1.2x). Jan cards increased by 1, as you said. The bishop as an age 3 poli would be really nice too, although maybe a bit too strong. I think with those 2 or 3 changes they’d be a lot more comfortable.

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I am totally opposed to giving benefits to the Ottomans, at the moment, it is a very solid civilization at the moment.

Do I have proof?
Yes, I have, I am in the organization of the FPL Winter Tournament, I am preparing some statistics of the game, especially the win rates and pick rates of the players (the vast majority, with a level of TOP 50), for the moment the tournament It is not finished, but these are the results.

image

I know that general statistics are needed, but they are not available, and if we go by these data, well, Ottomans is very good. Moreover, they would propose a nerf rather than a buff.

Clarification: Inca was not taken into account, because it was prohibited.

4 Likes
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idk if 8 games is good sample size

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I think the same, but there is no general data like in AoE2 DE. I can only say that when I play against Ottomans in ranked, I lose most of the time or it costs me a lot (ELO 1600 Approx). And well, to prove that civilization does not need benefits, imo, I only have this data.

2 Likes
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I guess Ottomans are hard to balance, so dev should be careful with buffs:

Age 2 Janissaries:

  • 6 musketeers = 450f, 150g
  • 5 Janissaries: 450f, 125g: looks fine
  • 6 janissaries would be way OP with 600f, 150g

Age 2 Hussars:

  • 3 Hussars: 300f, 300g
  • Why do you want more, given than other civs have the same shipment ??

Age up to 3:

  • 6 skirms: 300f, 390g
  • 6 cassadores: 480f, 210g (little worse)
  • 4 albus: 200f, 400g: is too weak you ate correct, especially with 6 halberdiers (6x120 res) is less than 4 doppels (4x200 res)
  • 5 albus would be fair at 250f, 500g.
  • more than 5 albus would be OP

Age 3 Albus:

  • 8 skirms: 920 resources (400f, 520g)
  • 6 albus: 900 resources (300f, 600g): looks fair
  • 7 albus would be too strong at 1050 resources. Just look at portuguese having 2 organs (800 resources) and not 3 (1200 resources) when compared to 2 falconets (1000 resources), so units are often rather slightly tuned down rather than way up.

For your story about raiding units, can you elaborate which units are good at raiding ? It is fast and has no “negative multiplier” against villagers. So if hussars are bad why would ottomans get a rsiding units while only russians opirchnik and lakotas bow riders (argubly chinese steppe lancers and french cuirrassiers) have one ? so max 4 out of 20 civs ? Its not like ottomans hussars are way weaker than other hussars…

2 Likes
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Agree with ott’s being fine. They are not in need of anything. Looking at your data though I am stunned that the Asian civs had such a poor showing. Chinese 0 india and japan almost no wins? I can hardly win a game against these civs. It really is making me question my abilities.

3 Likes
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I am an ottoman player and I think they are generally good.

Maybe he needs a bit more ranged cavalry damage from Abus Gun, and faster troop build for late game or treaty.

Also an infinite native ally, and some skirmish type units only as send.

Since the abus is no longer as strong against artillery as it was in the legacy game, it could be given a bit more projectile tolerance.

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If anything i think Otto could use some very late game buffs, think industrial age, because they struggle in prolonged games. Their early game is fine mostly. Their age 3 politicians might need a review but that’s all.

Ottomans are fairly easy to deal with once you get past the early/mid game skirmishes.

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Saying 6 Jannisaries would be way too op with 600,150 which is even incorrect, its 540,150 I wonder why you say the first one correct but then u say a jann would cost 150 f.
but 6musks are better shipment because they do the purpose which they need to do much better, for example against a 5 cossacks/5 raider shipment or if you want to look at the real stats:
6x Jans : 120 Ranged damage, 180dmg to cav, 1260HP
6x Musk: 138 Ranged damage, 234dmg to cav, 900HP
like I said its just about the usage of the shipment as first shipment, for an agressive start, or defensive against raid its just straight up worse, even with 6 Jans the Jans are only better if combined with Abus. And still vulnerble against raid if an agressive play is the case.
Its not 5 Abus atm, its 4, it should be 5 so I can play something else than the 4 huss Age up (scout)
I don’t want more Huss, I just said its not a great shimpent ( u can look up to the recommandations).
I just don’t like the fact, that Ottos are stuck at playing one way which is the extreme way ( All-in) with crates and silk road, an FF, no semi mostly because its worse compared to other civs.

Thats the thing I want to be changed the civ should be at the standarts of the civs at the moment being able to play to a more semi ff style like germans, french etc. and still having an potential to defend themselves (the 6 Jans would be maybe doing a job like 8CB because its a better shipment than other civs), thats what the civ is lacking

USA, Japan, Sioux, Aztecs, Inca, French, Brits every of these Civs don’t need an TP Route or water, they in their Civ have a better eco system than ottos, so if I have a worse eco without TP or W, I atleast want some mobility to get some less eco for the enemies. If I need to play for map so I should atleast have better units (at their job), atleast a cheaper huss would do it too.
No Pikes/Stepperiders which could do that are existing in the civ.

1 Like
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I mean otto has some nice matchups, where it can win easier, because the strategies (all-ins) are just less risk-high reward and just working in the end, maybe its because that.
Spanish which work in the same way (ff) got a high winrate too,maybe its because that
I can’t give a better statement with this informations.
I’m ok with nerfing 100f against 100w for an slower game but more economic, too.
If its the case that they should be too strong against there good matchups.
I don’t know what the rules are so, was even an first pick and second pick the case?

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At launcn of AoE3DE , mosque used to be 100w with 50w tech like in ESOC Patch, too.
Ok, I tbh. thought huss used to have 30% Res, but its a mistake I accept.
Its possible to give otto a shipment of the new african bowskirm mercenaries technically, but this is a bit too far I think, I would be completly fine if I Otto would get a better musk shipment than other civs for don’t having an cb shipment or something like that.

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My bad, yeah, it is 540f, so 5 jans is 25g too cheap and 6 jans is 90f too expensive. Point still stands.

If a musk is better than a janissary, then the problem is not only the number of shipper janissaries but also the cost of janissaries. Janissaries should cost 70f instead of 90f, to be cheaper than musks. A civ should not have “inefficient units saved by great shipments”, except maybe spanish/german that are designed around weird shipments.

I know, that’s why I said I agree with you on this one and it should be 5 abus (just like germans have 4 doppels and not 3, 4 doppel being worth much more than 6 halberdiers )

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Thanks for the statistics. Some evidence that the nerf to the PUP Chinese cards were unjustified and need correction. They needed a buff and it was denied.

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Could the card irregulars (boosts attack on villagers for cav archers) be reworked to gain access to cav archers age 2 (with age 2 stats) as a potential raiding unit. Never would be able to mass due to ottos eco and cav archers cost but gives another option for the civ?

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Well, actually, it’s funny you mention it, all china’s losses were before the update, the only china win was post update, and i think it was thanks to the first age consulate if i remember correctly.

Note: The tournament started in the middle of last month. Only the grand finale is missing

1 Like
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That is interesting. Looks like we’ll have to wait until more date comes in to have a more accurate view of how the patch affected the civ then

1 Like
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Does otto units need a buff or does otto civ need a buff? cause I think the units are for the most part fine (maybe the whole abus thing needs a relook) but like for the most part I think DE has made otto more stable.

Heck booming with Otto used to be impossible until DE but we have the 4 TC boom build now.

2 Likes
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Here are my ideas:

-Remove The Grenadiers from the Ottomans
-Give the RG status to Abus Guns so their late game are boosted.
-Return the ROF to 3.0
-Optionally Guard or Imperial upgrade for Abus gives +1 or +2 more range.