Yeah they were pretty badly nerfed and it wasn’t mentioned in the patch release notes.
Seriously what they could do was nerf the build XP and keep the kill xp the same.
with wild west upgrade they get guard upgrade for free so peacemaker is just equivalent to a royal guard upgrade
Wild west was veteran upgrade not guard.
They should reduce the resources but have it send resources on the first shipment. It’s useless in supremacy but OP in treaty.
if you read the text to wild west and that other outlaw upgrades, it says “gain attack and hitpoints with each age up”
It automatically provides an additional 25% when you age up to industrial, and I note that it has been like that since the african civs were introduced.
edi: and an additional 50% upon imperial, this is why the new york age up no longer works for outlaws and mercenary contractors no longer buff them either
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its okay that not all upgrades are equally as good in each mode.
there are 5 options, just because 1 isn’t great in supremacy doesnt mean it has to be good for it, just like some age ups are only good on water maps.
like you usually dont take the free factory in treaty because it just doesn’t mean much as you are going to be in industrial 3 minutes later.
I generally agree with that, but this is a rather extreme case and it seems fairly straightforward to make it useful for both without being OP in one of them.
Sure, but the 1200 resources insta-deposit mechanic is considered op by everyone in the treaty scene.
yes, i am arguing for a nerf to it.
like dude i am in the scene.
Perdóname colega tenias razón menudo nerf a los forajidos, valen demasiada población 3 de pop por un pistolero es demasiado o un renegado, tanto el pistolero, como el renegado y el pirata deberían vale 1 de población, para que por lo menos sean útiles así no sirven de nada.
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They reverted the stupid and undocumented Nerf.
The shipment should be available to the Lakotas as well.
Yeah I’m so glad we found a balance now with 2 pop pistolero and 3 pop cowboy. Unfortunately Asian outlaws and pirates remain untouched and as unviable as before
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Before taking the “Dance Hall Card” to age 4 for USA and now also Mexicans, I really liked to use outlaws for fast Rush games to have a little more variety here. With the change, outlaws are no longer a good option in early game in my opinion which I think is a shame, because the population cost is too high to base an early game strategy on them.
For me, Age of Empires 3 Definitive Edition with the new Outlaws changes offered an appeal that I experienced back then I played the strategy game “America No Peace beyond the line” and now unfortunately these nice nostagic western feeling is threatened again.
I really hope that the developers will find a way to make bandits more appealing again in the second age. Sure it is necessary to find a balance for everything, but on the other side I think some variety and more options in rush games can’t hurt.
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Just make sure to build an early Saloon in transition, turn your age up wagon into a second Saloon and send 700 wood relatively early before you get constantly popped, and you should be able to make it work in 1v1 Supremacy or a 2v2 without much pop problems.
For other game modes just try to be more aggressive (to recycle your pop while dealing damage) and get to IV not too late.
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Weirdly enough, the build seemed to get stronger, not weaker. I think I was shooting myself in the foot by sending dance halls too early. Like @BjornViking20 just said, ship 700 wood and make houses instead. Plus you can go to age 3 and mix in mercs or napoleon guns.
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Happy to hear it worked out for you as well!
I do think that any non USA-Mexico outlaw that you get by map, should keep the pop from the original buff, so with Dance Hall/Atonement: 1 pop pistolero (musk type unit) and renegado (skirm) and 2 pop for Comanchero (goon unit). Also extending this pop reduction to any other Asian maps + pirate outlaws. Keeping in mind that they can only produce them from one building
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My first strong outlaw strategy was based around Germany and still works quite well for rushes, even it is a problem that you are limited to just 1 tavern in lategame, so you have to finish the enemy until mid game.
I also developed a strong outlaw strategy with Mexico revolting as Baja California that is also quite viable in lategame.
Still I do not think that outlaws are that viable for the USA, especially now after they will nerv Cowboys. Because of Dance Hall Card beeing only available in Age 4 I always get pop problems around the midgame. I tried to get a fast industrial but had problems to defend myself.
I am also unsure why the card “Oklahoma Black Mesa” is only available in age 4. Is someone using this card at all playing USA with outlaws? I would find the card interesting if it was available in age 2 or at least in age 3 and you could use pistoleros to boost your economy playing with outlaws, but in age 4 the card seems far too late to me, as does “Dance Hall”.
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