Well of course, Teutonic Knights will always be the best option when you can force a fight against enemy swordsmen (sans Jags or Samurai), but that situation rarely exists outside of a magical fantasy land. My point is that TKs, an already highly niche unit, is good against (non-bonus) melee, but comes with a huge risk of not being able to take those engagements. Giving barracks units +1 armor makes them ever so slightly “teutonic-knight esque,” but with none of the drawbacks, so in situations where you might question using the TK (which is most situations), the armor bonus is just one more reason to question it.
Correct. If I had to choose, I’d rather have the speed than the pierce armor, since it would give them slightly more freedom to choose their engagements, and would make it harder for regular speed archers to micro them down.
Yeah, if you have to pick one of the two bonuses then give them the speed. And if they’re still too weak give them the pierce armor as well (don’t double-buff their speed by making them even speedier yet again as that would just be silly. We don’t need no Usain Teuts).
Rubenstock: good bye Tim
Rubenstock: You tried your best
Rubenstock: You picked mongols on megarandom
Rubenstock: You had map with 3 boars and 10 deer
Rubenstock: You even docked the lake
Yeah nothing wrong with Goths.
Also 39 food and 19 gold does make them indeed easier on your eco than villager production. Just for those wondering.
If OP claims goth are ridiculous strong i have to heavily disagree. The civ has still no eco ups and the only way to have some bonus is going for barrack units for the whole game. Since barack units are rather sllow and have no range unlike kts/scouts and archers, its still not the best play. You should never die vs full militia, simply palisade wall them out and you’re fine. Goth will still stay a bottom civ for decent players.
Mongols steppe lancers are also not really THE game breaker, since steppe lancers are in general a bad unit atm, mongol a lacks midgame bonus to make them playable and the most important: they lack the last def up in imp, which makes them extremly bad in imp. If the unit is bad in imp you don’t want to go for masses in castle age, since you are forced to transition away from the unit.
This patch didnt overbuff anything.
Also everyone who is trying to go for the hoang meme rush. This is such a bad rush, if your opponent plays properly/expects it or scouts it, it shouldnt work
Yep. I expect players trying the Goths/Hoang Rush to have some early success since it changes the meta slightly and many players will not be prepared for it (See T90’s latest video), but then people will get used to countering it, and Goths will remain firmly in the bottom 10 civs.
I generally agree, although I think the SL inclusion is a pretty good buff to the Mongols as it gives them a solid knight alternative in Castle, when, as you point out, they are at their weakest. They may not want to make it much in Imp, but it allows for a smooth transition from scouts in feudal to knights/SL in Castle, with a mangudai transition in late castle/early Imp.
Hoang now has a new favorite civ. I can’t wait to see him make 30 barracks and 130 millita in the dark age. I agree that it’s not OP but I don’t think that the Goths are still bottom tier in a 1v1 open map.
I like the new Goths bonus a lot but I’m biased because I suggested it myself.
I think now it’s seems op, but in the long run, it’s good bonus. Yeah, is super predictable that goths are going for a drush… But you have to deal with it anyway. So it’s gonna delay your eco anyway. Either if you wall or if you create your onw militia, it’s gonna be annoying anyway
Annoying, sure, but if you weather the drush reasonably well, the Goths don’t have much else going for them in the following 2 ages, and can easily be countered by archers in Feudal. Most other civs have enough of an eco bonus that they can absorb a little eco damage early on anyway.
Yes, of course it’s not an eco bonus, but what I mean is than in more or less extent, it’s gonna delay you. In the long run, it helps goth. The question is if it’s enough
Viper and t90 tested it recently it seems a bit OP at the moment although its still bit early because its one dimensional strategy which makes it easier to prepare its not something people used to right now in the end time will tell but Viper so far agrees that its OP indeed for goths.
Viper said mongol steppe not op at all and he played agasint them once didnt seem disturbed by it compared to previous fat cumans(his subjective thought but he is one of the best players if not the best).
As suggestions for he said that goths can be given no drop off for hunts with attack bonus removed and dark age cheaper infantry bonus removed.Also he said that mongol hunting bonus stil very good it should be toned down to %30 or %25 so that they are not %1000 pick for hunt heavy maps like valley etc.
Welp, this strat is so telegraphed that you can just wall and loom early, and since as soon as Goths touch feudal they resume being as bad as they were pre-patch, you will still get a civ win in the end unless you’re Portuguese.
Wut, a FU mongol elite SL wins vs a FU Xolotl warrior (ie. basic knight with only attack upgrades) with a grand total of 4 HP left. I know SL are supposed to be massed, but you would need a lot of them before they can challenge knights.
If the goth player scouts you walling, he can just go naked FC instead because literally you’ve wasted time on walling, thus you gain lead as goths. Try mind gaming more?
Steppe lancers produce one per 24s, knights take 30s to produce. Meaning you’ll out mass knights. Steppe lancer also costs 20 resources less total. You’re getting value for your money with the extra 30% HP as well as the movement speed and attack range and the fact they fight better in groups and raid better than knights.
So if someone does 2 stable on you and you’re doing 2 stable steppe lancers, as defender you’ll have 2:1 or 3:1 numbers in your base. If you wait and mass, you’ll naturally out mass and can use stacking and range against the knights.
I hope I’m being more than clear enough this time.
I’ve been using this argument, and I’ve been pointed out that while all of this is true, the fact SLs cost more food than knights and the fact they are produced faster makes them overall harder to sustain for an early castle age eco. So it’s not that straightforward.
So normal drush FC turning into a Hoang is not dangerous at all, incase you decide to save villager time. It’s just too much considering Goth early game is strongest early game there is in the game currently. I hope you’ll see this sooner or later for yourself.
Sure it’s not straight forward, but the point is it’s stronger than standard, covering for the weak phase in the Mongols game plan, you realize Mongols always were one cut below strong castle age civs, now they are stronger than standard making them perfect all rounder civ with HEAVY early impact with the hunt bonus and scout timing. It seems to me you’re still failing to put together all the pieces on how well Mongols do in terms of feudal and castle and how strong this new option with the extra HP is for them. If it was standard steppe lancers, sure no problem as they are weaker than knights but the bonus is just too much.
First result is that you need to micro a lot for the SL to stand a chance. Even with micro on my part they first lost to Malay knights. With some F3 cheating, I eventually got them to win
Oh great, Mongols SL are cost-effective against Malay knights if you outnumber and “outressource” them in the first place.
Now let’s fight something stronger like Korean knights, shall we?
