Yeah figured.
11 So true.
Britons+Malians+Bulgarians+Portuguese for fastest xbow+bodkin+ballistic.
3 Likes
I think you still canāt beat malay.
But I think Malay + Portuguese can be a nice combo as flanks now. Malay for the powerspikes and Portugues cause the TB is really strong, paired with now a decent eco + discount.
Maybe Portugues now are even with the other top tier flank civs? I think this is absolutely possible. Especially as Ports also have a really open techtree in the lategame which the other top archer civs usually donāt. Ports will really pair well with the āBoomyā pocket civs like Teutons and Hindustanis, allowing them to get to their overpowering eco a bit faster.
Just want to mention also for the devs:
I like these kind of small patches. It would be really cool if we had these like every month.
Doesnāt need many big patches, just a lot of these smaller ones at a regular basis would be really cool.
9 Likes
Thanks, I get it now! So the Portuguese pick figs, grapes, almonds and raspberries, use them to make sweet smooth wine, then sell it to the English in exchange for wool (medieval Englandās principal export). They make jumpers from the wool, so they need less firewood to keep them warm, and thatās what the extra wood represents.
In hindsight, it is so obvious.
6 Likes
Forager is the slowest generation of resource. On paper it is 18.5 food/min. If you put 6, it may drop down to only 17. With 6 Portuguese foragers, you are getting 34 wood/min which is slightly better than 1.5 lumberjack. Maybe there is a possibility where you will save 1-2 lumberjack and put them on berry and avoid making farms. Iāll try a BO if I get time later.
@casusincorrabil can you try?
I donāt think you should put more than 4 on berries cause of pathing but also cause you want to have that income while you transition to farm eco.But with ports you would probably get earlier to berries.
And potentially get up 1 vill earlier with 1 less on wood. Donāt know if that bonus is enough for this play, but itās worth a try probably.
I think the bonus is quite flexible, you donāt need to make totally new buildorders for it, you can just adjust the already existing ones and have basically used it fully.
Only on water maps this might lead to specific portuguese builds with faster uptimes. Cause this would allow you to transition to water military faster.
No, it was a great idea, and an important quality of life change. Team games are now much easier. Besides, if it bugs you that much, just turn it off.
8 Likes
Thatās exactly how I did it. I tried two arena builds in ladder games with initially 2 on wood and 6 on berries (4 on wood before clicking feudal). I managed a 24+2 forward castle drop and 20+2 monk rush. All that with a pretty clean eco behind (bit axe and double lumbercamp). That new bonus seems to allow for really fast forward strats before opponent should be able to field units to deny forward buildings.
If you donāt need to wall your foragers in and have the time to shift click 6 on berries is completely fine. A lot of arena BOs use 5 on berries anyways.
Can you share the full BO?
What if you go to berry even before wood? Is it possible? 6 on sheep, 5 on Berry, 1 to lure boar and then 4 on wood?
I donāt see why these builds should be better with portuguese than with dravidiansā¦
3 Likes
Or Japanese. It really feels like their bonus is just a worse version of those 2 civs bonuses because you get the wood slower and on open maps your bonus can be denied unlike theirs.
You are correct, they arent better than Dravidians:
- if you assume a 22 pop uptime with loom, you get 4 more villagers after foragers + loom and get around 4vils x. 6w/s x. (130s + 5x25s + 19s) = 100w upon reaching feudal age. It may make sense to put 2 more villagers on berries instead of wood, then you only get 30w (instead of 100w) but gain 40f or so.
- if you go fast castle with 26 pop feudal uptime, you get around 140w upon reaching feudal and around 80w upon reaching castle age, so just a little more than 200w.
Maybe people find Ports more interesting in Arena due to Organ guns ?
Anyways, Iāll try out BOs with them as they are one of the civs I play the most.
These are arena builds for monk rush (portuguese have cheap monks plus all relevant techs) or forward castle (portuguese have organ guns). Dravidians or other civs could in theory do the builds as well but there little point in doing that with bad monks and melee UU.
You take one sheep, then start pushing deer, 6 on food then 2 vils on wood for lumber camp, in the meantime continue pushing all your deer and put all vils on food under tc, after deer is gone transition vils to berries until you have 6, rest finish second boar and shift click those to two sheep afterwards. More vils under tc on boar/sheep, last two vils go to wood, click feudal pop 20. Upon reaching feudal build market blacksmith with vils from wood. Take 3 vils to build the market and sell your stone. You should have pretty much zero on any res upon clicking castle age.
This is 20+1+loom for double monastery forward. I had 4 dear but you should have around 200 food left on sheep so should work with 3 deer as well. Iirc I was missing like 10 food after the force drop for castle age and had 370 wood upon arriving to feudal so I guess you could further optimize it by putting the 4th vil to wood a bit later on the way to feudal. Or maybe just put 5 on berries and have one more on sheep under tc (I had 9 in the end, I guess 10 for 2x5 on sheep should be better). Was the first time I tried this build so pretty sure thereās room for optimization.
On the way to castle age you can make second lumber camp for having 8 on wood and once you can afford it make mining camp with 5 on gold (1 or two extra in early castle age). At some point in early castle age make 2 or 3 farms.
Maybe, didnt try. You should make sure that you have enough for third house though 11
2 Likes
Whatās really interesting about these new super fast FC builds is they showcase how big of an investment farming eco transition actually is.
The Problem I still have with them is that I donāt see how you get to a healthy eco from that on cause you burned through your starting food like crazy and have no farming going for you then. You then need to first build up your eco before you can actually do anything.
Thanks a lot.
That is also my concern. I have a feeling berry villagers wonāt make it on time. Iāll try tomorrow.
Very true. You can pull off something like 23+0 into 3 tc boom with khmer but basically no other civ can boom off such a build.
Yeah you simply dont. You can get bit axe and maybe you can squeeze in bow saw (not sure) but the idea really is to pressure your opponents fast. If you make enough dmg and you decide to not go for a forward castle fast imp follow up once you cant do dmg anymore (which usually is the play) you can add tcs later on. But yes, initially the only thing you can produce is siege and monks basically.
What I liked about the portuguese build was it felt pretty smooth eco wise in early castle age. When I go smush I usually take my generic 20+1+loom BO for works for basically any civ but you struggle more for res when you arrive to castle age.
1 Like
I can actually imagine a quite strong FImp into double Feitoria play with Portuguese. Triple Feitoria might be a bit too expensive, but Double might be viable.
You could go to stone fairly early and try rush up a castle as the castle age building, this would reduce the needed lumberjacks and set up more for the feitoria addition (as you also need to place a lot of houses).
The wood from the berries would be perfect as it would allow you to place more farms with lower vill count on wood early on, just enough to get the res for Imping.
I just donāt know what army comp I want to target there. Probably just Organ Guns + BBC (?).
Monks and Hand Cannons are also an Option. Monks can be a weakness against Castles and light cav whilst the HC would need extra Food income. Soo either even more feitorias or you would need to add farms which this build tries to avoid.
I donāt need to say that I usually donāt play Arena, so Iām not so familiar with every civs optimal fimp army comp 11
Well the problem with fast imp is that in my experience you need a forward castle to make them work because otherwise castle age all in oftentimes work well. I havenāt played a lot of feitorias so not sure how good they actually are, maybe that changes things.
Feitorias are nice. Yes they have less pop efficiency than vills, but they are quite cheap for the income.
If you factor in all the Cost, Feitorias cost about half as much as an even amount of villagers effectively (due to the need of placing TCs+Farms to make them). So with 2 Feitorias you get Back about half the investment you made to get to imp - as long as you arenāt pop capped.
With 4 Feitorias you would basically pay back your Imp investment, but effectively losing about 40 pop space isnāt something you should underestimate.
Itās still free over malians, and malians do not get blast furnace. Also gurjaras bonus also applies to Elephant ram