Pay to win

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
1

The new civs are clearly OP. AOE4 has become pay to win.

The ZXL Zhuge rush is such mindless trash that you can only beat it if you execute your build order like a surgeon.

Ayyubids with camels that switch between ranged and melee at the moment they got feudal? And their stupid camel monks?

Having to play against a single unit who summons death on all units from above with a click? And if you don’t kill that one unit, you suffer?

This shit really feels like it’s become pay to win.

The balance feels way off.

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2

Unless you consider the Byzantines, lol.

3

Here’s the thing. It’s not fun.

4

I understand. I really hope they make some balance changes soon, as the ones they made did not go far enough for some of the new civs, and they failed to buff the Byzantines.

5

Not only failed with bizantines, but nerfed Japanese when they doesn’t seem to overperform. I can understand the nerf to Ozutsu and to Yorishiros, but man, the Kura Storage too? Insane.

6

The Kuma nerf I think was a response to player hate of the feudal mass samurai strategy. I do think they didn’t really need overall nerfs (though Ozutsu and Yoshiro’s were broken)

7

Yep and despite being broken Japanese win rate was in a solid 50%.

Yes, I was talking about the garrison capacity of the Kura. Now the farms are generated slower too, but I don’t think this is a issue to be honest, but the garrison… The chinese villages has 8 garrison capacity and you can place 4 (?).

This nerf was unnecessary.

8

I do think that Japan should have gotten some buffs that went alongside the nerfs, but Ozutsu and Yoshiros could not stay in the place they were, they were too game warping.

The Kuma nerf was probably unnecesary, but I think they just wanted to hurt the Japan food eco so they couldn’t make as many samurai since people complained a ton about it.

9

Yep but maybe just the farm generation was necessary, not the garrison space.

I do think japanese ranged units need a rethink. Their more mobile archers in theory are “good” because you can harass more, but at the same time they are useless because the only good thing about them is their mobility, and is lost when you use spears to protect them.

Also Onna Musha is much worse than normal crossbows, so in practice you finish just massing samurais and melee infantry.

As a japanese player I would like more ranged options.

10

Ya, Japan’s lack of good ranged units is a serious drawback to the civ right now. Like Japan’s landmarks are still good after the nerfs, the civ just has other issues that need resolving.

11

Well, we can’t say it’s Pay to Win if several of the new civs actually have a low win ratio, (I’m talking about the Byzantines and Order of the Dragon), and not all of the content is necesarelly only civs: We have New Maps, a New Campaign, New Biomas, etc.

Also, It was not possible to know what was going to happen in Ranked until the DLC came out, and in any case unlike Leage of Legends, there is a balance and it is periodic.

What is happening is that the developers are implementing new mechanics and original civilizations with more freedom than when the game came out in 2021. This allows now to have civs like the Japanese with 13 unique units, or even a civ with a unit mechanic with more population (OotD), similar to the Starcraft “Protoss”.

Let’s remember that when the game came out, many civs only had little unique units (English 1, Mongols: 2), and even their number was limited by balance; (“The Chinese could only have 1 single dynasty unit at a time, so only 3 per party.”)

Now, since the Mali came out in season 3, there was now a civ with 6 unique units at the same time and two cool passive bonuses. To balance it in the 4th season, many civs received new unique units (King, Wynguard, HuiHui Pao, Militia), unique technologies or balance of Landmarks.

Solutions: I think that in the future, just as happened with the Mali, the solution is not in nerfing new content, but in balancing the civs that, let’s say, “have been left behind.”

  • The Byzantines could have an extra Feudal Age unit, aside from the mercenaries, to balance (Early Cataphract, Early Varangian Guard).

  • The HRE could have more “Extra” Unique Units (that do not replace those of the classic build), such as, say, the “Black Rider” (ranged cavalry with giant gun). Some bonus could also be considered regarding the royal houses or states affiliated to the Empire at some point (Teutons, Bohemians, Castile), and if not recruit mercenary units from these “future civs” (Teuton Order Knight, Hussite War Wagon, Tercio Arquebusier)

  • The French could have some extra technology or unique unit to differentiate themselves from the JoanDArc variant. They were also known for employing many specific mercenaries: Genoese Crossbowmen, Swiss Pikemen, and the Scots Guard.

  • The Rus, to make the Landmark “Spasskaya Tower” more useful, could acquire the Oprichnik (from AoE III), light cavalry and raider anti-economic units and buildings, available in Keeps or stables.

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