Because the ME building set originally had the most amount of civs and not to mention, there’s 6 civs each for the Eastern European and Mediterranean building sets and there’s 5 civs with the East Asian building set. If another civ was to have the Central Asian building set, it would have to be the Pashtuns and Tajiks. Because of how many civs with the EE and MED building sets there are, I definitely expect that another civ with the ME set to be added like the Kurds and Nubians.
And? There is no hard and fast rule on how many civs should have each set.
If a civ used a set irl, then that’s the one it should have ingame.
The Central Asian set is based on Persian buildings, it should be the ones the Persians use.
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If we were to be consistent with this, then the Bohemians should have the Central European building set instead. The reason Persians have to keep the ME set is because Iran is in the Middle East and the Persians represent the civilization in that country. If we decided that we give the Persians, CA set because it has Persian influences, then we might as well give the Turks, the Mediterranean building set just because Turkish architecture has Mediterranean influence or give the Berbers, the African building set just because the some of the buildings in North Africa have African influences.
Edit: Got rid of the part where I mentioned the geographical part in regard to the Berbers since I regret putting that there.
Have you seen Iranian buildings? They look like the Central Asian set, because that’s what the Central Asian set is based on.
Even the Feudal age Central Asian buildings are based on earlier Persian architecture, like the Sassanian ones.
But that’s what you are arguing for the Persians, to give them a set based on geography, not reality.
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But either way, we aren’t changing the building sets of any of the ME civs.
Says who? Persians are getting a rework, and one of the most requested changes is to give them their correct architecture. So I would be very surprised if they don’t get changed to it.
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But Iran is in the Middle East. Now I didn’t mean to argue for the Berbers based on geography. I was mostly pointing out architectural influences that many North African buildings have as these have African influence. And yes, Persians are getting a rework but that doesn’t mean their architecture set is going to change. The rework that would be are for example, with their unique bonuses and some parts of the tech tree.
So you keep saying. Does not change that their architecture is different to Arabic architectural styles.
The blue domes on the Central Asian set are called “Persian Domes”.
It can quite easily be both. Spanish, Byzantines and Vietnamese changed their styles.
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And don’t forget that Turkish architecture is also different from Arabian architectural styles as well.
Same goes for Berber architecture as it’s also doesn’t use Arab influences either as seen in this following pic:
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Looks like Central Asian feudal set. Heehee
Slightly trolling, but Persians being overtuned on hybrid maps is a numbers issue. The amount of extra starting wood they get is 50, and it should be 0. That would solve a very large part of the problem.
Meanwhile a buff on land maps that wouldn’t effect hybrid maps much is to increase the dark age TC work rate bonus from 0% to 5%.
(I know they used to have 5% TC work rate in Dark Age and it was too strong, but I think it was the combination of 50/50 wood/food and 5% TC work rate that was too strong, and removing or reducing the starting resources bonus would have been the better fix.)
1: The Arabic set has Ottoman buildings mixed in with it.
2: Turks having the correct architecture or not is neither here nor there, they are not getting a rework, Persians are.
I’ve visited various parts of Morocco, the closest set is still the Middle Eastern one.
Here is what I think the problems are:
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Just outright very bland and generic (outside one exception), their main claim to unique Cav play fame is having fully upgraded Paladin, Hussar and Heavy Camel, except Paladin is a very expensive situational upgrade, and FU Cavalier + Camel + Hussar/LightCav is a common tech combination. Persians basically only become meaningfully different to Turks, Berbers, etc in terms of Cav only in Death Match or super high res late game scenarios, and alot of these Civs have additional bonuses for said Cav unlike Persians.
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War Elephants are completely worthless garbage even on most Closed maps outside of highly niche meme maps like Amazon Tunnel or Michi, they double down hard on all the same weaknesses of the already quite niche Battle Elephants, Persians effectively do not have a UU and Imperial UT in the vast majority of Scenarios.
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Persians are probably intended to go for Cav Archers by (atleast the original) developers based on historical sources, Tech tree, but no Bracer and general Cav Archer weakness pre-Late Imp, makes them not worth it. Even a Civ like Franks arguably ⁹has better CA play thanks to the Cav HP bonus.
-Should have the Central Asian architecture set as said architectural set is inspired purely by Persian style buildings, whereas ME one is more generic Arabic and Levantine. Just makes sense for Persians to have it
- Just kind of weak? Despite what the bonuses and tech tree may suggest , they’re around 47% winrate on Arabia, 40% on Arena with the winrate being concentrated in the first 20 minutes of the game and sliding down the longer the game goes on. This suggests to me Persians are being mainly carried by the starting Resource Bonus, DA TC Drop, and the 10% TC work rate in Feudal.
Persians - 1v1 Random Map | 1200+ - aoestats
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Yes absolutely. But you can see how you’re changing the tc bonus to include dark age while simultaneously suggesting the removal of 50 extra wood at the start. Its a mixed change, not a pure number adjustment on one bonus.
Exactly. I’ve mentioned this in a different thread before as well.
There is also Persian influence on the Middle Eastern building set as well. In fact, the Age of Empires Wiki stats that fact.
I’ll stop arguing over whether Persians should have the ME set, or the CA set because I don’t want it to get out of control. Also, sorry if anyone here thought I was getting salty, which I don’t mean to but sometimes, there’s certain changes that I get mad about but however, if the Persians get their architecture set changed to the CA set, then I’ll be flexible with it, even if I don’t want that to be case. Besides, people can feel free to disagree with me about Persians keeping the ME set and that’s fine by me.
Other people don’t believe the wiki, which I think is ill-advised. If they did, they would know that Inca and Ethiopian architecture styles are already present in the sets they have.
Like I don’t even get what are the points you have behind Persians keeping ME, for me it’s just as simple as “Architecture set based on Persian Architecture, should be given to the ingame Persians”.
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An identity.
New UU, change the meme TC Drop bonus for something viable and open their tech tree a little bit more, not much. Problem is the Persian late game is 100% Cavalry focused, their Archers suck, their Infantry is awful, all they have is Cavalry and their cavalry is fully upgraded but otherwise nothing special.
And lets be honest, I LOVE the War Elephant, but they are a meme. Even in teamgames they often feel very unviable, they die so hard to monks/halbs against decent players is not even funny. You expend thousands of resources on a slow unit that takes a while to train whilst your enemy can spam 20+ barracks of halbs and completely stop your push.
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Now if the Persians get a new unique unit, then the War Elephant is going to need to replace the Battle Elephant and this unit would most certainly be available to civs that historically used military elephants. In fact, the current Battle Elephant sprites, if replaced by the War Elephant, can become a regional War Elephant sprite set for both, the South and Southeast Asian civs.
As for my points behind the Persians keeping the ME, in my honest opinion, I think it’s best for the Persians to keep the ME set because Iran is in the Middle East (In fact, a major part of the Middle East) and not to mention, the Central Asian architecture is based on Timurid architecture, which I’m pretty sure is mostly in Central Asia (some buildings in Iran do also have Timurid architecture as well but it’s likely not the majority of what buildings in Iran look like) and the ME set does take some Persian influences. Because of all that, I think that the Persians having the CA set should instead only be a mod or appearing in some other mod but again, feel free to disagree with me.