I learned from the SotL video that savar is superior than paladin in 80% of scenarios. Even their RoF is 1.8 which helps them win the 1v1 battle vs a paladin.
I don’t want to see the savar nerfed yet. But please change paladin RoF to 1.8 as well. This “upgrade to nerf” thing is complete nonsense and outdated.
The developers has been trying to make new units stronger than the current ones, that’s it.
Even though Savar got lower hp, it is not an disadvantage in real fight. Both of them can take 5 hits from halberdier, both of them can take 8 hits from heavy camels, any cavalry with higher survivability than Elite Leitis can free kill archers.
IMO Savar is a better unit than paladin overall.
well, you forgot that there are civs with bonus for the paladins like Teuton and Frank, which are better in melee fight and beat Savar in melee.
Also, not every single civs in the game can have fully upgraded halb, in fact only 24/45 civs have fully upgraded halb. Halb that lack blast furnace needs 6 hit to bring down FU paladins while still only needs 5 to take savar down.
Frank paladin is a good design because it can take 1 more hit from halberdier which made some difference. We have been playing with it for a long time and the unit itself is balanced overall.
Teuton paladin is not perfectly balanced but it is an acceptable change, it takes 1 more hit from camel, it can free kill a few more melee units.
Savar is still a paladin in all aspects which I mentioned before, so it should be remain as paladin. IMO, it should be either cheaper and weaker , or stronger and more expensive in order to make it a brandnew unit.
24/45 stand for the majority already. I don’t want to talk about FU or not because the civ counter always exist and I don’t think every civ can be balanced in 1v1
Savar should lose 1 meele armor.
Having anti archer bonus dmg plus extra pierce armor plus cheaper upgrade already, Sets it apart to be unique and the faster attack on top.
I dislike busted units
It’s literally worse than any civs with Paladins and a bonus that helps in combat.
Honestly, the Savar SHOULD be better than a Paladin. Otherwise, what is the point of it existing?
It’s not even wildly better, just marginally in a few areas.
Its way better against arbs, and generally just as good on melee.
I reckon it will get nerfed to balance the extra pierce armour
Savar is still worse than most other Paladin specialised civs like Franks and Teutons.
Savar upgrade is definitively too cheap (1000f 600g) for what you get in return, increase it to 1170f 700g so getting there isn’t that fast and give other cavalry civ a chance to react.
Also Savar shouldn’t get +1 PA over Paladins, the extra attack they have vs archers is more than enough distinction, and also no longer make Sicilian Cavaliers too obsolete at this point.
Why this random number?
How are Sicillian Cavalier obsolete? People still spam them anyway if they pick Sicillian. I also don’t think Savar’s stats should be nerfed, otherwise, there is nothing unique about the unit, maybe increase the atk speed equal to paladins 1.9, but that’s it. Increasing the upgrade price is more appropriate, I would push it further actually, make it cost the same as paladin upgrade.
I think he means Sicilian cavs look pale compared to savars, not that Sicilian players don’t make cavs. I would suggest bringing back their 50% reduction of bonus damage, given that every civ gets buffed nowadays.
Since Savar is cheaper than Paladin, they should be weaker. But seems like they are miles ahead against pierce units while same as Paladin in melee combat. I liked the attack bonus vs archer thing but both 8 PA and equal melee strength as Paladin are too excessive and way too OP in TG.
I bet an equal army of any civs Paladin+arbalester will lose to Savar+arbalester all the time. And that’s a huge problem.
Not really.
People are comparing them to other civs Paladins in strength, but cost is much more of an internal balance than external. Every civ has different ecos, and what is easy to tech to for one civ might be harder for another.
I’m not saying Persian eco is bad, not at all. Just that it needs to be taken within context of the Persian civ, and not others.
Well good thing Persians don’t have arbalesters.
And I am not sure why Savars being better than Paladins is a problem in of itself. Why should the civ that pioneered heavy cavalry not be one of the best at it in-game?
With this logic every single civ should have different upgrade cost on different unit. Are you advocating this idea?
And even after that, it is cheaper.
Irrelevant as no one can make both of them anyway. If you had some ideas about TG, you could understand my comment.
Because that’s not the problem. No one would bother if they had more cost or more expensive to upgrade.
Because it is not balanced.
savar need a weakness, either -1 peirce or -1 meele armor. their specialty is faster attack and bonus dmg to kill archers significantly faster while being cheaper to tech.
the offset could be either norticable weaker in meele than generic FU pala with same meele armor but -15 hp if we lower meele armor by 1
or alternatice they could be noticable less durable againt archers with same pierce armor but -15 hp if we lower the pierce armor by 1. this way their specialty is killing archers extra fast.
in my opinino -1 pierce armor is proably the better solution. imagine playing archers and then get RUN OVER by savars. Counters are fine but their needs to be a limit ot how hard you can snowball.
-1 pierce armor would also keep tarkans and sicillian cav more distinct
giving generic paladins generlly 1.8 attackspeed buff just because of savars is one of the worst proposal i have read on this forum
Agree. Persians seems the absolute No. 1 pocket civ and will be banned every single time (for a map where the meta is xbow+knights). They even have Caravanserai.
less attack or missing blacksmith tech are good ways too
less pierce armor isn’t a good way because both elite leitis (6 PA ) and elite Keshik ( 160 hp）can beat archers easily, Savor still have more than enough survivability against archers with 1 less PA
Since Persian already got bonus vs archers, Savar can keep the role of archer killer, but it need to be bad at something.
Honestly, the upgrade for Savars just feels way too cheap for what you’re getting. That’s my main issue with the unit.
Meanwhile Franks Paladin sitting there with extra HP, free bloodlines, more LoS and created faster…