This game is being catered to the tastes of the top level players.
Who once they wine you feel obliged to react to things that are not true to everyone.
Abbasids is a very difficult civ … that is slow to build … that cannot produce units from any Landmark constantly.
The latest note is suggesting you want to mess with it again… This civ is finally interesting.
A nerf here will create another imbalance somewhere else.
In Abbasids you can get tower rushed … ram rushed and you don’t have time to react.
Also please consider bringing back the counter siege. Everything has a counter right ?
This season I lost the most games playing Abbasids.
Once your opponent has 3 - 4 Trebuchet guarded by tons of units then the game is over.
I really want to keep playing this game as an Abbasids main.
Don’t force me to quit.
Abbasid eco and tc discount is too op.They can move resource gather rate to little behind in golden age like they should get this as a 3. bonus.Wait they should get %5 at start and in 3.bonus it should be %20(same as before)
Debatable.
I think you need to balance the hard maths. If one civ can have loads more power at X minutes and there’s nothing the other civs can do then that will be broken at all levels of skill. We regularly see this in the stats.
But you shouldn’t balance on the basis of “this civ can counter X if you have 400 apm, if you don’t sucks to suck”.
I think Abba is an interesting one, because the pro’s thought they were the worst civ in the game around February (source: Beasty, emergency tier list February 2024).
Since then they buffed Abba in a number of ways - with the further push from Fertile Crescent from 30% to 35% in August (it was just 25% before the March 2024 patch) probably tipping them from reasonable to too good. It should probably go back to 30% and see what happens, in the context of wider changes to the game - and new changes to come. Late game Camel Archers also possibly need a nerf - or at least don’t benefit from so many buffs. I cynically think that’s an issue for all pop-efficient units in the current version of the game though.
Balancing for a theoretical 400 APM isn’t the same as balancing for high-level players.
I agree the civ should be playable regardless, but the fact of competitive multiplayer is that to compete, you need to be able to, well, compete.
And if pro players hypothetically said this was the case, would you agree with them or disagree with them?
Patch changes always trail impressions. Which is good, because often impressions take time to settle (even amongst high-level players). At the same time, leaving something bad in the meta for too long sours the “feel” of the game. But that’s a problem for patch timing / the developers, not the community and its high-level players.
I guess it depends on how tightly we are defining top level players/less skilled. I don’t think you should consider the issues of say Bronze players - because they can become better players. Most of the imbalance is just their mistakes that they’d make with all civs. You can argue this up quite a long way. But at the other extreme I’ve seen people argue “balance” can only apply for the best 8~ players (or top 50 at a push) and I think that’s kind of narrow (and speaks to that 400 apm I mentioned).
But if a civ is consistently overperforming in Conq/Diamond/Plat/Gold - it probably speaks to it being easier to play than other civs at a roughly equal level of ability. Which probably means it gets a greater power spike earlier and that should be looked into.
As an example - I think Ottomans are underpowered right now because they are very weak around the usually critical 9-12 minute mark. But their bonuses start to kick in and they have a great late game if you can get there. If you just buff the early game, I feel they’d go back to being overpowered, as arguably they were at the start of the year when Abba were bottom tier. So instead you probably need to tweak things, so they aren’t as weak early, but aren’t as powerful late on. They issue with Abba is they’ve sped up the early game, so getting to the late game just isn’t as difficult as it was.
I’d put Fertile Crescent back to 30% and see what happens. If the pro’s say the same - that’s good? But my reasoning isn’t really based on them saying it, but the underlying logic. Which is possibly why they’d say the same.
They just need a small nerf on Camel Archers and a small nerf on Eco Wing and they’re fine. I don’t think they’re a priority in terms of balance. There are much bigger offenders right now, like Byzantines.
All civs and i mean All civs should be designed or redesigned to need Some type of mandatory map control presence. Indefinite camping is boring and i daresay not a real time strategy.
Abbasid eco wing only needs a safe woodline to thrive. Unless you’re mongols your likely not outright denying the stone for a 2nd TC. ONCE the tc is up they just need wood since all their fedual units only requires wood food.
I am against a nerf to their golden age as that would nerf every wing opening, not just eco wing. Instead a nerf to the camel archer and a nerf to ghulams would better address the camp issue by increasing the gold cost for each unit. Camel archers cost no gold, this should change from 170f 60w → 140f 60w 30g. Most maps do not have 2 safe gold veins in base, plus if Abbasid wants to camel archers, this will
Slow down their age up, given the suggested change.
Put more villagers exposed on gold viens ( aka mandatory map control element).
Same principle for ghulam, they need an increase in price and have more of its cost shifted to gold. From 120f 30g → 100f 60g.(aka map control element)
Edit
This part is just a genric nerf to camel archers. A lot has been done to make camel archers more responsive, but now they are so responsive that you can essentially make them function like mongol mangudai, which can’t be the devs intent??? The fix to this is to give them a zhuge nu like double shot. This will force them stationary for a brief moment even with the most godly of micro Or significantly reduce their dps in half if players insist on doing the mangudai like micro.
I dont agree you at ghulam and camel archer nerf.Their cheap villager and towncenter could be nerfed like make those techs cheaper and lower their discount to villager and towncenter.Other then their cheaper villager and tc they are just normal civ.
All the “camping civs” can get away with camping because they get sufficiently cheap/buffed up farms, that they don’t need “food” out on the map - and the non-camping civ isn’t gaining so much from access to deer/boar etc. This impacts the early game which is much more food intensive than anything else.
I mean shifting some camel archer cost to gold versus food doesn’t matter in feudal. You’d just swap a couple of villagers over from food to gold. If anything its better, since your starting 4000 gold will go a long way whereas you quickly eat all your sheep and safe berries. I feel one of the reasons why Zhuge Nu rushes are so good is that you won’t run out of safe food/wood/gold very quickly. Its easy to spam archers because you should have a safe wood line. If by contrast you want to make dozens of horsemen you can quickly find yourself in a precarious position.
Its only in real late game the fact Camel Archers don’t cost gold starts to matter. When you’ve poured thousands of gold into going Imp, and then getting the Imperial unit upgrades, university upgrades, eco upgrades, civ upgrades etc. If you’ve been forced off gold you can keep churning them out.
Arguably the game change is to make going onto farms early worse - but you have to be careful this doesn’t cripple these civs, as they don’t currently have the tools to compete with the stronger aggro all in civs that would murder you out on the map.
Shifting the cost towards gold will as you said alleviate the food pressures, but because the wood and farms are exceptionally safe? There is at present no legitimate point of attack. If they instead need an exposed resource, like gold on most open maps, it creates that point of attack.
Zhuge nu cost gold but you also have safe tax so you really dont need much gold. A better example of a campy civ that needs gold is Eng 2tc (which do not make maa bc how much food and needing gold) and your point of attack i eng gold, you’re not diving their woodline nor farms with nothing less than early knights or a large team of keshiks.
Awesome, using the civilization with the strongest economic development and overall strength in the game, and then saying balance ruined it.
Is there a possibility that a Feudal Age 0 Military 3TC player would fail against any player with a normal IQ?
You play like this to play PVP and say in the forums that Abbas is weak?