Please fix the cheese meta it can't be beat

I have yet to see someone beat a mongols player tower rush into quick age 3 knights and some how some way win. They don’t even have to commit to the pressure and losing villagers means nothing to them. They just need you off your gold or to fight the tower. Every second of time and food spent in fighting the towers prolongs your age 3 meanwhile on their side of the map its free game smack down that sheep farm next to the stone get 50 sheep ez clap balanced game THANKS DEVS!!! WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
For real what civ doesn’t consist of cheese. This meta is just so boring and lame to play… I see a lot of people already switched back to their main games waiting for a patch… They got a huge list of balance needed.
From French still being number 1 on water and land (you can’t out produce french on 3 TC’s omegaLUL and they can do knight and archer siege push WHILE out producing you Kappa123).
Rus is so far ahead from scouts to archers, your only hope is that they don’t micro vs knights and mangonels and just let you kill them (another PepeClap moment).
English are SUPER strong in the meta making quick age 3 and 2tc very un-viable (they hard counter any eco type of build). Also now players are finding out they don’t even have to commit they can just back off and get a 2nd tc from age 3 tech. Thus you are behind economically trying to hold an extremely hard push and they are booming? Where is the balance in that?
Don’t even get me started on the deli sub sandwitch stone tower cheeses going on. This civ ins unbeatable if they just make a stone wall and tower its almost as good as mongols cheese but mongols are better because they produce 2 units at once and get age 3 easily while rushing, deli’s just get it slower so imagine a slower mongol civ but just as strong early game (also can get sites early for free gold). NOTE: They cheese on water maps as well LUL.
Chinese I haven’t seen a cheese strat for them yet, firelancers are beatable people just don’t know how to hit the “c” on the keyboard yet to spread the units out.
HRE Can be OP if they get 3 relics but this has often made pros think they have 3 relics so they are “rich” when in reality 900 gold per min doesn’t actually matter too much, that is 1 bombard and 2 knights every min. In a high level match it doesn’t matter as much you will need to get more on gold again.
And abbasid is actually trash tier so idk gl if you play this civ I see pros try to make it work but just lose. It is too general of a civ to be good it’s like picking a beginner class in an MMO that just has all the basics and no specialization.

Hi, What is your elo?

RN I am rank 601 1471, highest was 15xx something. Trust me when I say beating this cheese meta is impossible. (and if some idiot says to just join them I swear lol. why would I just spam mongols or french or rus every game, I don’t like to play them, I play abbasid, hre, some english because its fun to make longbowmans and watch people just lose hahahaha, and if I play any other civ I feel like I am just too strong and it isn’t even hard, I play chinese on some maps as well).

What is your elo to ask that question?

62% winrate for mongols >1400elo
not even mentioning pickrate (even worse)
\AoE4 World

But people bellow 1400 still saying “it’s fine/just learn how to play”.

Idk if French have any map they are the best at, they boom acceptably but not as well as HRE or China (or even Abbasids), they get outclassed on open maps by Mongols and Rus, and they are like number 2-3 on bay and island maps behind Rus and maybe HRE, and they are actively bad on most closed and hybrid maps.

Hybrid maps have like 3 playable civs, Delhi Mongols and English

Mongol tower rush is really meta and annoying and you could call cheese, and mongols are by far the best civ on open maps and super strong on hybrid and good on most others.

Rus FC Horse archers is really strong, but hard to call a cheese strat.

China fire lancers is super busted in team games and landmark sniping is annoying cheese that can be hard to deal with on most maps without layers of stone walls everywhere.

English have good feudal but they kinda suck right now because if they don’t win in feudal they usually just lose. They also soft counter Delhi on hybrid maps, otherwise Delhi would be easily best civ on pond/river maps.

Abbasids make English look like a good civ and are only kind of viable on some closed maps.

HRE are top tier on bay/island maps and closed maps but they usually get destroyed by Rus/Mongols on open maps.

China is basically same as HRE, just slightly better and different matchups (they are much better vs Rus/Mongols but usually lose the matchup vs HRE for example)

Delhi are super great on hybrid maps because archer fishing boats just win the game. They are very mediocre on most other maps though until their plethora of bugs get fixed.

French are still great, they just get outclassed by 1-2 civs on most maps leaving them always a good pick but never the best.


I was asking because I was curious that you comment that the English are SUPER powerful in the meta (they are decent on open maps but looser on closed and very predictable maps) or that the French are number 1 on land when there are 2 civilizations that are above . By the way, I see civs like HRE and RUS very strong at sea too.

I agree that one complains about what is really broken knowing the game, but complaining that there are cheeses or stand-up cheeses (I am not talking about Mongolian), if you want we start the game in Castles and thus we already take off the early game.

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watching english players destroy people, if you watched the english games they pressure so hard and just get age 3 if they want and can keep producing more than you. WHILE THEY ARE KILLING ALL YOUR STUFF lol… clearly they are one of the strongest civs right now and will be until a direct counter is implemented vs longbowman that can help defend age2 push that is so strong. Even though you know it is coming it still is strong and wins 80% of games just from the age 2 push. A good english player and if you watch Demuslim and other top level players (which I hope you did before posting), you notice they get age 3 TC and come out ahead every time.

Demuslim who picks English because he is English
and English - have only option to ram push.

But ■■■■ everyone else except current top1 , who cares about noobs… no one willm they even dont stream.

Stop watching streams and play yourself.

DeMuslim should have lost to Vortix’s Chinese on a map that highly favoured the English.
His longbows were shutdown with some palisade walls, and they could do nothing but wait to become redundant as palace guards and nests were built.
Vortix could have and should have won that game, but he stubbornly stuck to the gold mine at the foot of a giant hill held by DeMuslim, instead of switching to much safer gold mines. Vortex didn’t even bother replacing his IO, he just played without them for no good reason.
He still almost won the game…

We can see that on some maps, it’s easy to shutdown longbow harass entirely.
In a meta where castle rush is popular and rather easy, longbows become pretty obsolete fast, along with the only viable first landmark.
English are strong in feudal, but people are now speeding straight through that, and it’s not so easy to slow them down.
English can’t compete on pro scouts. English can’t compete on water.

No idea why you think they are so strong.

English are probably the best feudal age rushing civ, but the issue with English (and why they have the 2nd lowest winrate once you get over like 1300ish elo) is that if they don’t get a massive lead in feudal with a longbow rush they just lose.
They get gold farms in imp which is nice and a TC landmark option which is good, but that’s like all they get, longbows aren’t great late game and the rest of their units are basically vanilla, so unless they get significant eco damage in feudal you just lose.

Also since English basically only has one thing they can do to win, you already know what’s coming and can play around the fact you know you are getting longbow rushed.

this comment accurately describes the current meta

I should mention that below like 1200ish Elo, Delhi is much worse, French is top 2 civ and mongols only like 53-55% WR, and English is more mid-upper tier.

Once you get above ~1200 you see my comments take shape and winrates change pretty heavily -Mongols/Rus/Delhi positively and English/Abbasid negatively.

I’d say China France and HRE drop too, but that’s mostly just Mongols winning so much most civs winrates drop but the above clearly raise/drop in the tier list.

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Yes, but it is true that I have noticed a BO made by a good English player (I don’t remember his nickname) who did a direct FC at 8:30 with the TC Landmark, then with upgraded lb and continued taking out other buildings depending on how the game was going (he did not neglect the economic improvements of feudal at least, he did them after putting order in the FC).