I’m not a person that likes balance whining but holy smokes the Caladria ruins any game vs. Atlanteans.
This unit:
It’s incredible how fast Atty can mass those units due to how cheap they are and how Atty generates favor. Please, devs, for the sake of the health of the game, fix this unit.
I agree, Caladrias heal units way too fast during battle! Atlanteans just have to pull back their wounded units, and in a few seconds, they’re fully recovered. Meanwhile, the opponent can’t heal at the same rate mid fight. It’s as if the Atlanteans have a constant Restoration power with practically immortal units; which allows their army to get too big too quickly while the opponent gets defeated fast. Yes, the Caladrias should be nerfed.
It is even worse for Norse since Godis only come in Heroic and Throwing Axemen very rarely will have opportunity to shoot at the Caladria.
I always found it counterintuitive that the slow and the burst heal do not share a cooldown.
How? Any unit that has more than one ability doesnt share their CD with both of them.
While oceanus is quite strong. Caladria being an issue is more a highlight of the tools different civs have and not the unit itself.
If you are norse, it struggles with range myth units even more so if they fly in classic age. Contrast that to priest or pioneers which have a much easier time with them. Greek to some extent also of you have a Hard time with micro and unit position.
Do you have something in mind? What would you consider needs to be fixed?
They probably should all share cooldowns, e.g. Lampade.
I don’t think there’s many units with more than 1 ability that are castable like that
Lampedes has suggestions for removing that in the discord server tbh. Its more confusing as to why all abilities would share a Cooldown rather than have separate like most abilities games go. It also allows an easier time tunning things since you can adress the CDs separately.
Heroes in campaign or other units like yinlong had different CDs for each ability.
There is no other game that simply allows you to autocast all abilities. Those units play by themselves and the abilities are quite powerful.
Either shared cooldown or mutually exclusive auto casting. And these can be applied to all units with multiple abilities.
I’m not sure but I think a cost increase and a nerf on her slow would make it a more reasonable unit. Not sure about the numbers or how to do it but these are the major issues I see with Caladria: cost making it too cheap and easy to mass and slow shutting down any map control from opponent.
Yea, im asking mostly for the design perspective of what would you want to adress. The exact number is hard to get to without testing.
For the cost part, what MU should she be akin to in terms of power that you would feel the cost represent her? For the slow part, im assuming you are refering only to the movement speed reduction and not the attack speed?
Yes, Yinlong like i mentioned before the rain part was removed allowed you to do just that. Zhuque also shares separate cd for both its skills (thou one is manual). The fact that you dont know of them doesnt make them not exist.
If you think caladria plays itself and requires no micro boy do i have sad news for you. But i guess how oppresive a unit behaves depends on the elo you play at and the civ you confront it with.
You are missing the dynamic that you cant use both abilities with caladria on the same unlike lampedes
It’s a tough one to be honest… I think theres no other flying myth unit capable of healing and slowing down units to make a fair comparison. I think an increase on her gold cost from 25 to 50 or 75, something like that. That way, the Atty player would have to make a choice between training more human units or training more Caladrias. Another option would be increasing the favor cost so they couldn’t mass Caladrias so early in the game without spending resources on making more Oracles.
For the slow: attack speed I would not change. The movement speed slow seems to be the most troublesome and in need of a number adjust. The current movement speed slow potency disables any form of map presence or poking from Anubites, Sphinxes, Valkyries, Centaurs, Heroes or some small raiding parties.
The same rationale applies for Master of Weaponry upgrade from Chiyou. Everyone has been complaining that the slow on this upgrade is far too oppressive and shuts down entire god paths and makes raiding with cavalry completely unviable. So, yeah, movement speed slows are insanely strong in AoM.
And your point is…?
You’re totally missing the point. Auto casting exists and is widely supported on all abilities to make the game usable with controllers. Elo levels are completely orthogonal to the problem at hand. You cannot compare this game to other RTS with abilities because most of them do not support controller inputs.
Again, what’s your point?
That you say the units dont exist but they do…. Theres plenty of games with autocast on more than 1 abilitiy at the same time. You dont even have to get out of the rts genere. Warcraft has a way more complex ability system. Outside the genere theres plenty examples. And its Just as meaningless argument since aom is not those games what it can or cant do doesnt depend on if its on another game.
Your lack of knowledge on them doesnt become an argument to whats the standard. You seem to be putting quite the effort to not get it.
Thats very false. Theres units that are easier to use than others. Some are not problematic when people are starting the game and can be very problematic when people reach past certain skill levels and the opposite is also true for others. You thinking that micro skill affects all units similarly Just shows that you are out of deph in terms pm unit design and how it function acorss different Elos.
You talk about intuitive and standards and you forget all the other details to fit your narrative. I dunno honestly if you cant get the point or are Just willfuly ignoring it
Yea, you wont find a 1:1 comparison. I meant it more in the sense of this unit feels like it has the same impact as when i make centaur/wadjet/ etc, so it should cost similar to X.
Also, while i know the numbers are Just an example, near in mind thwt 50/75 might seem small numbers but a 100-200% increase in gold cost is quite high.
Interesting, making them more favor intensive would kind a play into the role of them securing map pressence and allowing for more oracles to find themselves.
While a good comparison its missing that the reason one is more oppresive than the other, to me at least, is that one buffs a unit you mass. Its rare for people to go 6-8 caladrias. If murmillo got that slow ability it would be insane.
Btw have you given though about how the unit isnnt a struggle for some civs and it is to others? Perhaphd what you would like to adress is those civs struggles. Or do you struggle against caladria regardless of what you play against it?
The discussion started off with the Caladria. I’m in favour of making all units that are not unique share cooldowns on abilities. And before you mention campaign heroes, remember the word “unique”.
Autocasting is baked into game design because controllers cannot do manual casting easily and mass myth units would be unusable without it. And even if you do have a keyboard and mouse, the UI is clanky and does not allow quick control of abilities. Manual casting only really works when there’s 5-10 units at max involved.
Sorry to break it to you, but game design doesn’t care about elo.
And you used lampedes to help. Your case. Im using the other ones that work similarly.
Good for you, im against it, and my reasoning is it diminishes skill expresión.
Since aom didnt release on console until after thats not much of the case imo. Even on beta this function was still present. Its seems more a modernize way of the old system in which all abilities were autocast and you couldnt control when to use them.
Sorry to break it to you. Game balance is done around skill expression and players skill. If you lack it is not a limitations to prevent it for others. This is a balance post btw.
It is. One doesn’t just casually port a game from PC to completely different OSes and input types without planning it first. The whole thing was on the table from the beginning even if delivered later.
But let’s agree to disagree. I personally don’t like some auto cast abilities, some of them shouldn’t be auto cast at all, some shouldn’t be by default. I think Calandria is a perfect example of a unit that could use some tinkering with cooldowns and auto casts. At the very least it would make the other 2 age2 gods viable.
Anyways.