Please nerf Eagle warriors

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
22

less mobile the cavalry, and they are supposed to be tanky vs arrows seeing as they are basically the cavalry of meso civs. even then they get wrecked harder by archers then knights do.

coma what? they have 0 base bonus damage vs buildings, and only 9 attack base at EEW, 7 at eagle warrior, which means the only bonus damage they have comes from arson. to say they would melt buildings is laughable as even a knight/cavalier would do more damage to buildings then an EW/EEW would do.

and ignore that 50 gold cost. or the 35 second training time. or the low base attack. besides. if the goal is to counter cavalry, why would i mix in eagles, when pikes counter cavalry harder, faster, and cheaper then eagles do?

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23

The problem here is the eco it is not easy like you think. The Eagles with their 20f can mass ez in castle age and in the same time keep your eco good and make vills unlike massing knights. All meso civs too have decent archers to back up their Eagles vs infantry or knights and mix pikes too, and Eagles kill monks ez which makeing counter them not ez at all and hard to deal with. Now we have in top 5 civs in +1650 ELO Incas and Mayans and regardless Aztecs not in top 5 but they ars S class in tournaments and got ban/pick every single tournament just why? Ask your self what make meso like this?! Their archers?! Many civs have archers. Eco? Many civs have eco. What make the meso broken is their Eagles more than anyone else and by its low cost their eco will be so smooth what ever they make. The Eagles line cost is broken and not balanced at all.

So the bottom line to balance all the meso is just one hit on their Eagles, nerf the food cost, make it higher, 30F or 35F will be fine.

24

at 35 second training time? not really.

yeah but knights are better all around then eagles are.

well seeing as those are really the only options they have, it makes sense they have good archers and decent eagles.

Incas winrate is high but they aren’t played that much. food for thought. you hardly ever see them in tournaments though. so yes. what sets aztecs and mayans apart is the economy, which is a staple of every top civ in the game right now. why are Aztecs and Vikings preferred over Japanese even though Japanese have better arbs then Aztecs and better pikes then both? because the economy.

yeah that’s why we see aztec eagles all the bloody time in tournaments. oh wait.

so the bottom line is you’re argument is full of holes and lies. you never see people complaining about aztec or incan eagles.

25

Reading this sounds like the same people who think lithuanians are op with relics or the thread about genouese crossbow or inca team Bonus. There is no particular reason why it needs to be done other then to a select few its to good. Just like the other strategies that get band there is ways to beat them people just dont like to go anti meta to win. Is it easy no but not impossible

26

i think El Dorado eagles could use a nerf, mostly in the form of increasing the cost of el dorado, but eagles in general are fine imho.

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27

So what? Is making 2 or even 3 barracks hard?!

But not cheaper and don’t kill monks.

Which need a nerf.

Many tourmanets we see Incas in the draft. You know what? I think Incas will be the best meso civ according to their big tech tree and their bonus for vills make raiding their vills very hard with their blacksmith for vills. I really believe that what prevented Incas to be S tier was their trush, their winrate now higher than anyone in +1650 ELO. Their tech tree the best between most of the civs and the best between mesos.

Yes you did especially with their stupid monks.

The bottom line is that a unit like Eagles cost 20F is laughable.

28

I can mass up knights faster then that. yeah they require more workers but they are also better.

oh my you mean a unit has to have answers?

only one of them needs a nerf if you ask me - Mayans

oh really?

here we see them played twice - considering your stance on incans being op, then we should by your logic have to nerf Tatars, Huns, Vikings, Lithuanians, Khmer, Chinese, Franks, Britons and a few others who are all seen more then Incas.
yet i don’t see you complaining about any of them.

here we have 28 series played. Incas appeared once.

if a wide tech tree meant anything Byzantines or Magyars would be the best civs in the game. do i think Incas are better then most give them credit for? absolutely - but to call them the best meso civ is laughable.
as for their villagers - they end up with (in imperial age mind you) 7 attack, 4 melee armor, and 6 pierce armor and 40 health. that means arbs kill them in 10 shots. cavalier kill them in 4 hits. still very raidable.

with a miniscule playrate. seriously. less then 1300 games played.

only against archer civs. which means eagles aren’t that strong against non archer options. seriously. i rarely see people complain about aztec eagles. or incan eagles.

1 Like
29

pls nerf em alraedy. ridiculos OP eagles

32

Aztecs could use a buff, such as getting Thumb Ring for example or maybe last armor upgrade and removing the +1 attack from Atlatl. Something that makes them more versatile, but I’m tired of playing vs a flood of 30+ Eagles early Castle age while I can churn out 10 Knights at best and even though Knight is an Eagle counter, they lose due to inferior numbers.

Or of course you can go Longswords, which also take forever to tech into, require 2 upgrades, 4 armor/attack upgrades and in the end they are not that much cheaper than a Knight food-wise and Eagles can still kite them and avoid them.

the problem is that Knights are VERY hard to mass in early Castle Age, they are more of a late Castle/early Imp unit. Eagles meanwhile, you can have 30+ 5 min into Castle age. It’s a joke how spammable they are from a DAMAGED economy. Try taking 6 vills off of your opponent in late Feudal/early Castle, I promise you that they won’t be able to spam Knights or Crossbow as easily (also due to the idle time involved with the Villager losses), because they will have very little Wood for example (again, due to idle time).

I think 2 Eagles beat 1 Knight and furthermore Eagles have a ton of bonuses over Knights: 3 pierce armor BASE, now this might seem like a small thing but it means that you don’t need armor to fully parry Skirmishers until Bodkin + Elite (infantry armor is also 100f vs 150f of the cavalry one). They also murder Siege, which means that massing Scorpions (which is a unit that doesn’t require upgrades and is fast to tech into as a secondary support unit) is not an option. They also have a bonus vs Monks and conversion resistance (again, massing Monks, typical counter to Knight and pseudo-Knight units, is not an option). And on top of that they have a bonus vs cav. Longswords are just a bad unit and in the end in the time when you are adding Longsword, the Mayan player can add Crossbow themselves.

I am in favor of even reducing the Gold cost slightly from Eagle Warriors, but they need to cost like 30f ish so that you can’t spam them with a 6 farm economy. If they cost 40g or so though, then El Dorado needs a nerf also (which is long overdue).

literally false, Knight is base 2 pierce armor vs 3 base of Eagle, and they get 100 HP vs the 55 (iirc of Eagle Warrior) while costing almost double the resources.

Eagles are a good raiding unit that allows you to run under TC without fear.

it is literally impossible to mass Knights faster, Eagles need 20f a piece so you can produce them nonstop from a ~10 farms economy (6 for Vills and 4 for Eagle). 14 farms probably allow you constant production from 2 Barracks. Meanwhile, Knights need like 25+ farm economy for 2 Stable.

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33

on an individual basis the eagle dies faster then the knight. yes its cheaper but it also takes longer to train.

yes but that wouldn’t be mixing them in with pikes would it? the pikes would be doing one thing and the eagles another.

is it more expensive? yes. but again 2 knights is worth more then 2 eagles on the field too.

34

IMO increasing its food cost is the best choice to balance them, make it 30f or 35f.

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35

The Knight vs Eagles fight is at 2:30 with 3000 resources total you get 42 eagles or 22 knights and as you can see knights crush them. Meaning even at a 2:1 ratio in favor of the eagles knights still dominate while being created faster. So you would need a 3 to 1 advantage with eagles in order to win and if your opponent is out massing you by that much You’ve probably already lost the game way before the eagles started coming out

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36

This doesn’t deny their needing for a nerf. You can mass them easier and keep your eco smooth with their meh food cost.

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37

Did you not see the video? Both sides had 3000 resources and even with double the number they still lose convincingly. And they are created slower than knights.

38

Yeah exactly! Its a SCENARIO! In game it is not smoothy like SCENARIO.

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39

And how would a real game play this out differently?

40

Eagles aren’t the problem, longsword men that are useless are the problem.

41

The food cost of eagles is really big problem, 20f as food cost for eagles is a joke.

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42

It would be even more favored towards the knights because you’re not going to be able to make eagles out of 4 barracks. and keep in mind this was with spanish knights, not with lithuanian who would have extra attack (potentially), teutons (who would have extra armor), berbers who would have more of them, etc.

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44

And yet 2 eagles cant beat one knight