It doesnt matter how they play, the fact is massed fire lancers are difficult to deal with in team games regardless of players skill. It’s not normal to have a unit that can end a 4v4 game in seconds. Does that seem fun to you?
All those people who said Fire Lancer don’t matter in 1v1 probably haven’t seen Beastyqt get Fire Lancered not so long ago
And of course, the Fire Lancer won’t be on the 1st line of the attack. They usually flank when your infantry is busy with other melee and ranged units. And as soon as your infantry is 5 seconds far away from the siege the Fire Lancers go in and wash and go back.
Also, spears are a terrible counter to Fire Lancers since the Chinese civ player with good micro with Fire Lancers always send suicide squad of 10 fire Lancers when charging against spearmen. This allows that player to use the rest of the fire Lancers to deal the AOE charge damage since the spearmen no longer brace the charge when in conflict. This is 1500-1600 elo basic skill.
Now tell me how you can counter the Fire Lancer?
When I loose to a unit, I try to figure out how to beat it. If you keep loosing to the same stuff you need to change your playstyle.
“I play x and only x is fun to me” won’t get you far. A firelancer raid “winning” in seconds is as bad as any loss IMO. Hence we have to adapt and find the counter. Qnd you don’t do that by calling daddy Relic for nerfs. Sorry.
What does that prove? Viper also beats people in AoE II with stupid strategies - he even went full war elegant(one of the least played and considered weak unit) in the hidden cup finals for a lot of money?
You are talking about 1v1, i am talking about team games which now focus on how to stop enemy fire lancers from getting into your base and deleting your landmarks.
Just split 10 spearman off to welcome the 10 firelancers?
I think if you nerf the damage on landmarks fire lancers should be a fine unit - or we need at least to see a lot more data in a high-level environment to judge the strength of the unit. I can imagine it being hard to deal with in 4v4 open maps.
So you mean his opponent (beastyqt) is a noob who don’t know how to play the game?
Where did I say that? I also didn’t say the guy in Hiddencup who placed 2nd wasn’t a great player. War elefants are considered bad but they were great in that scenario. And beasty could have easily walled his base there and been fine. It’s not like the pros figured out the meta completely or why is every week a new civ considered the best. Beasty didn’t expect the firelancers and got punished hard for not seeing it. Or do you think somebody losing to not scouting double proxy reaper in sc2 is a noob?
RUS horse archer and scout spam are countered with archers and well placed outposts and spears.
All the above mentioned counters don’t work against fire lancers. Cause your outposts die in 2 secs. You are arguing for the sake of arguing.
There are counters to most things. Scouts die in seconds to spears. And they don’t nearly do enough torch damage to any landmarks. Hell scouts even die to archers. I spam archers and scouts are dead. So when someone uses RUS to spam cav archers and scouts, you can have an entire pop of just archers and still come ahead with your landmarks intact.
And also, cheese strategies leave a sour taste in everyone’s mouth. If you enjoy spamming scouts and cheesing, good for you man. But some people like the counter play of age of empires.
I am arguing for the counterplay mechanism. There is counters to firelancers, so use them.
Yeah GL with chasing FL with spermans on huge TG maps 
By this logic u cannot even go away from your base because if u will let base 30 seconds without units you died
All poeple who try to justifice FR are on right spots NEVER played TG above 800 CELO or IDK.
Am in top 0,5% of playerbase in both 3v3/4v4 and I never met a Chinesse player who was not spamming FL … Yeah so funny. On top of that my main civ. is RUS so walls are useless (btw. they are even with others civs. when u are on maps kile KoftH, Arabia etc. etc. Its so huge open space (And I like it expect - yoling FL of course) so u can never wall evertyhing.
Only way to counter them is to mass Horse Archers but you still need to macro them and do not allow FL to close distance. Everything else is useless because its slow in compare with FL and once they pass your army - you again DIED -
30 seconds to snipe all landmarks is just not correct. Everything is WRONG in fact.
U can have everything - better army, better eco but suddenly a Chinesse player from the other side of map (who was not even your counterpart) manage to yolo trough and snipe you instantly. Is that correct? Hell no.
I would slap into the face everyone who come here with arguments like: Low CELO problem, TG are not part of balance (Like really? 80%+ players play mostly TG) - Not to even mention if u lower their anti-snipe-landmarks capability everything should stay same for 1v1s as well. Guys please do not comment something u have no idea about. Go and try to play TG yourself and u will see.
Small fix for now is at least a fact that u cannot spamm gold by Chinesse market so u do not get them for free.
3 Likes
I will never understand these stupid people. Its not about 1v1, its not about team games. Its about unit. Two fire lancers being faster and better than a RAM makes no sense at all. If you are still defending it, that means this unit alone is the reason you win games. This single comparison is enough to tell this unit is totally broken. We can talk all day for cost, AOE etc. If you wanna keep spamming a single unit, dont update your game and keep sniping bots landmarks and yay!
3 Likes
Hey, guess what? There is counter to war elephants. Its bombards. They are faster with upgrades and erase elephants. I feel like this guy only plays Chinese 4v4 and snipes enemy landmarks with fire lancers and have zero game sense other than that.
I’ve played team games, but I am not a fool expecting them to be balanced. Because the fact is that they are not, and they won’t be. I go there to learn basic mechanics of a civ, not try and rank up.
If you want balanced games try 1v1’s.
It is about 1v1, because if you ask for nerfs for units in teamgames they are also nerfed in 1v1. And they fit a role in 1v1 which hardly ever get used, but when it does it feels satisfying.
And if you don’t want to counter them in team games, in a rock paper scissor game, maybe the game is not for you? That is what the game is about, outplaying your opponents? What does the opponent do? Find his weakness and use it against him. If you leave your base undefended. Sure you loose it.
The reason why its not used that much in 1v1 is because its late game unit. 1v1 games are shorter so you rarely see people build that much mass. In team games if enemies are coordinating you cant early push.
And again I know you are gonna say “Game should be balanced for 1v1” after reading the above paragraph. You can reply again and my claim still stands. The unit itself makes no sense. 2 fire lancers are much faster and better than a ram.
2 Likes
Bro am one of the best CoH players and I play mostly TG and what I can say?
TG are very close to be perfectly-balanced. Yes there are some cheeky strats or some kind of advantage on some maps for Axis or Allies BUT there is deffinetly not such a broken unit (imagine a tank so fast u cannot stop it with increased dmg against base-structures - omg its so stupid)
All what we want is to reduce FL capability against buildings - specially LANDMARKS - your 1h game can be ruined within 20 seconds only because of this.
If u leave your base undefended because U helps to your teamate or you attack enemy elswhere? do u understand it takes a lot of time before you push trough lines or destroy enemy landmakrs? (Not in FL case)
Bro sorry to tell you but u are completely puzzled.
How would this change 1v1 gameplay is beyond my logic.
No point in arguing him. He s gonna spam “Game should be balanced around 1v1” no matter what you say. At least the problem is well acknowledged in community and hopefully will be fixed in next patch.
1 Like
I don’t get your logic - just bc I don’t think fire lancers is half as broken as you guys are claiming it is, makes me now a 1 unit fire lancer abuser, even so I made fire lancers in 2 out of 100 games so far 11.
Let’s see your logic in application: Beastyqt and Marinelord etc are just top 10 on the ladder bc they think the fire lancer isn’t broken even so they aren’t building them.
The building sniping should take a nerf - but I’m not convinced that the unit overall is that broken. Comparing the ram (which is available in Age II and is pretty much arrow resistant to the firelancer doesn’t seem too much sense to me either.)