Please watch, Fire lancer gets high speed, strong AOE and highest siege.
A unit is upper hand to most of units, still can siege with high speed.
I don’t know why this is considered balance.
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Anyone still defending Fire Lancers after watching this video is absolutely delusional.
Discussion is over, nerf this broken trash.
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Indeed, they are trully a broken unit, basically ruining team games entirely.
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Hey but we are to dump and arnt counter them with spearman.
hmmm maybe some crazy silly people are still playing Dehli or HRE. I love that he shows how BAD or helpless Dehli and HRE are vs cav and especialy firelancers …
I recently started doing some of the Chinese masteries, and had a game going against the easy AI and decided to build some to see what all the fuss is about.
Only spammed out around 30-40 and it was silly how fast they sniper the landmarks.
Not sure if it need rebalancing in real games, but the torch seems OP.
The game 100% should not be balanced around teamgames nor people who don’t want walls.
The rus/Mongol, arguments are more valid. But the fact that mongols have mangudai negates them from that argument. And Rus have their fast castle build that dominates china anyway so the fact of the matter is, if china get firelancers at all, they should be rewarded.
The bugged bracer factions are just unfortunate, and should be resolved anyway.
1200 food and 600 gold is nothing for such an OP unit.
Fire Lancers are too OP reward for that dynasty as it costs 3 times less than what it really offers.
Let’s don’t overexaggerate - they are for sure not worth 3 times as much 11. They are hard to reach with the dynasty in 1v1’s. I think a nerf to damage vs landmarks or just changing the landmark win condition in tgs is a good approach here. I actually think all melee units should do the same amount of damage to siege as firelancers. In 1v1’s they just struggle super hard to engage into anything including (working 11) pikes.
Like MarineLord said: Firelancers are OP in the plastic leagues.
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No one is asking for the game to be balanced around team games.
Walls are also a huge investment. AoE has always been a game of counter units. You see cav, you make camels or halbs, you see archers you make cav, you see infantry you make mangonels.
Right now you expect everyone to preemptively wall? On a map like Arabia, where one needs to expand do you know how much stone you would need? The very nature of walls is to buy time. You spend 250 stone on a wall, 2 bombards make 1 hole, that’s 250 stone worth of vil time spent early game.
The issue is, having a Chinese opponent should not automatically become - wall or death or rush him at early game (they buffed zhugenu btw, so archer rush on them is useless)
The logic here is, they don’t need to have 55 torch damage. They are just expensive horsemen.
Tbh siege damage is alot too low vs siege units in this game - I’m sick of 50 knights not being able to 1 volley a bombard or 4 vils out repairing knights attacking siege
Just keep the damage on buildings landmarks the same.
As we know, everyone knows Chinese in 1vs1 is no match since every good player would challenge them early.
But in team games, they shine like no other civ.
And what they do compare to what it costs is not even close and is not weak in melee as it says.
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China are an A-Tier civ in 1v1s atm - they are uncontested if it goes lategame - they are by far the best civ if it goes lategame bc of their siege. I hate facing china the most in 1v1’s and I also played some china myself.But the problem is not the fire lancers in 1v1s here 11 - it’s the siege not dieing even if you let 50 horseman attack them.
Again as you say that, the siege is a problem!
Tell me what you do to counter siege?
Usually, springalds, culverins, scouts and horsemen, etc. are the most common approach.
But when you try to counter the Chinese with sieges such as culverins and springalds, those fire lancers just run straight to slap them. That’s what pros do. And it costs so little. And as another civ, they don’t have any non-siege unit that deals so much damage to buildings and siege.
Fire Lancers deal 55 damage to siege and when elite they deal 65…
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Dono why you hate walls so much. For what they cost they give you more than double it’s worth back in any match. I probably use walls in most my games. 2-400 stone to know early if an enemy is trying to flank you. Yes that is worth it.
Zhu ge nu hits later than the initial archer push, it costs a third of the cost of hitting castle age. It will delay you a while untill the vill production time reduction kicks in. Which if you are getting rammed is not super important.
How do you view Rus horse archer + scout spam? They hit castle age before you, run into your base and kill all vills that can’t hide in TC. Wall or die? Nerf them too? What playstyle will be left?
That is the issue with your mentality.
There are counters for them. Deal with it.
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Even firelancers struggle to kill siege halb in pro games you don’t see firelancers build here - they just go for the better siege and if it goes late those extra damage extra range extra hp bombards from chinese just flatten everything 11.
Like Beastyqt MarineLord think firelancers are bad. It also seems like cav in general isn’t in a great spot if the game goes to imp you just dont build those anymore anyways.
The Landmark sniping seems stupid in TGs and should be addressed but overall I’m not so convinced by the unit myself - I tried them a few times but bombard infantry seems so much better.
No spears defending your siege vs a player using cav to kill them? Sorry, thats on you then.
Yes it should as well. I mean I know the expectations are low for AoE4 
but team games should at least be functional, not broken because of one unit.
You think spearmen counter Fire Lancers when they are only focusing siege.
1 thing you must never forget!
1st of all Fire Lancers attacking siege with the torch, not charging spearmen so they won’t be stunned!
2nd thing is that they will snipe sieges like paper. And is the most cost-effective unit if used appropriately. You should watch the “Age of Noobs” - Fire Lancer video.
The people I see in teamgames just mass one unit. They are effectively not playing the game to it’s strength. And there for it should not be catered towards them.
I play the game myself at ~1400 elo and my experience with fire lancers vs siege spear wasn’t that great so far - ye you got 4 bombards to lose like 50 fire lancers great… at least it’s not like with knights great I lost 50 knights to kill 1 bombard 11 - like Don Artie in the showmatch - he had 50 knights vs spear siege - he charged the siege and killed 1 of 4 bombards and lost all worth it.
I think the top players are just right here, that going siege infantry to protect that siege is better 