Please nerf POLISH

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

overall they’re too OP. Because the folwarks make their build to plexible. 10 pop is op. IT IS NOT HOUSE!! 5 pop would be suitable. And think about that folwarks have many functions and choices for them. At 170 + @ wood! A mill is 400, but folwarks are 320. EVEN we can produce military and get a house pop from it.

So, What I’d like to see that FOLWARK SPAM build is going to be much harder to play.

And, as you know, other many polish stuff are gone crazy. for example, the cossack hetmanate is. Its revolutionary are villagers. So they get all the upgrades that were once villagers’.

To be honest, I have no idea, but just concern about new civs’ over power.

AND PLEASE DEVS, BUFF RUSSIA.

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Solo nerfearia los envios, ¿320 de madera por un folwark? no jodas colega ya basta con que los edificios polacos sean de papel como para ahora hacerlos más caros, el problema de los polacos son sus envios que envian demasiadas tropas si nerfeas eso ya veras como baja un monton. esos envios deverian tener tope y por alguna razón no lo tienen.

Y con esa argumentación tuya entonces nerfeen al blocao, no? ya que tiene 5 de pop como una casa, es un cuartel y una torre, sin mencionar que sus mejoras le añaden 5 de espacios de pop más hasta un total de 15, por cierto los folwarks tienes que pagar por sus especializaciones, si es que no has avanzado con el logista.

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Agrarian folwarks should keep the original base gather rate instead of changing it, otherwise they scale too much in comparison to other civs.

Also, with logistician they are just 170 wood, too cheap

4

Why nerf them? They seems pretty decent

5

LOL so far Poland is considered the weakes faction to ever faction?

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Im just talking about eco, they gather at 1.66 f/s at full carded while having an infinite fur trade and wodka destillery, its just too much.

Literally they dont need to mine after going folwarks.

170 wood for a house, barracks, stable, farm and livestock pen is just too much.

They should get an early buff but a lategame eco nerf.

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7

Still not seeing your issue here, considering Poland will never enter lategame currently unless you play treaty which… yeah no, that mode needs complete reshuffling.

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Es todo eso… SI PAGAS LAS ESPECIALIZACIONES! si quieres que sea un molino, pagas 170 de madera para mejorar los ratios de recolección, si quieres que sea un corral pagas 80 de madera, para mejorar el engordado de los cerdos, si quieres que sea un edificio militar pues pagas como 80 de madera más, al final te sale lo mismo, ademas! tiene 1875 puntos de vida, menos de 2000! osea son de papel.

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Si avanzas con el logista las especializaciomes son gratis, y siempre son reversibles y casi instantaneas, por lo que el único pero son los puntos de vida característicos de Polonia.

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Advocating nerfing Poland and buffing Russia in the same message… It’s a bait, isn’t it

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Thats why I am saying they need an early game buff (to survive) and a lategame eco nerf (to not overperform)

Both can coexist

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y tu avanzaras siempre con el logista? como ya dije lo más roto de polonia son sus envios de tropas que no tienen tope y no entiendo cual es la mania de que todas las civs sean iguales en capacidad en juego tan tardio, otra cosa una carta que si creo que podria ser nerfeada es la de Folwarks avanzados, deberian reducir su reducción de costo solo en un 8% en lugar de un 20% y la mejora de sus puntos de resistencia solo deberian ser del 40% y no del 100%

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Not really because their lategame eco is also not particulary fance, seeing as you are missing cooling techniques and Royal mint. So you are just plain wrong imo.

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They dont need refrigeration or coim cards, they get 1.66 food/sec on agrarian folwarks due to the higher base gather rate. In top.of that they get 10% of the food rate on coins after wodka destillery (0.17 coins/sec), so their villagers are gathering 1.83 resources/sec.

Then they have distributism, 1.5 coin from taverns after wodka destillery, a better factory with 99 vills and an standard factory.

With that huge food economy amd infinite fur trade they dont need anything else than folwarks

15

How realistic is it that you will have that super sejm by settler count? Not at all? Good.

By the tavern meassure Italy, mexico and US should be broken and yet Italy isn’t at all performing and US and Mexico use the saloons in niche builds at most, or with revolts that had to be nerfed for other issues.

Every faction has a trickle either so i don’t get how this is supposedly an issue with Poles, the most obvious hole in your argument is the existence of France, which btw actually gets decent to great infantry ontop of great cav.

I literally can’t see by meassure how they will outperform other late game ecos, except on food which is the weakest of the ressources and at the same time somehow the replacement card is an issue for you but except for mercs out of 2 taverns. Make note 2 taverns are somehow in your mind capable of maintaining pressure in a faction that relies heavily on food in it’s roster in the lategame?

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1.83 res/s is too much, that translates to 10.870 resources per minute with just the 99 vills (which you aim to get max vills everytime, so there is no point on that).

In top of that they have >2 factories and trickles.

No civs get that high without clear disadvantages: expensive units/villagers, lacks on the unit roster, less villager limit… Poland gets lower HP on buildings, but in lategame with the sejm upgrades its non existant.

Again, im asking for a buff in early and a nerf in lategame, everyone happy.

Agrarian folwarks should keep the inbuilt buff, but considering the 0.5 f/s original base gather rate, not changing it to 0.66 since it stacks with every tech after.

This wouldnt be an issue if they hadnt the infinite food to gold trade card. Food is the fastest resource to be gathered, so any macroeconomy thinking dissapears.

Their cards are niche because are specialized on outlaws and saloons, wodka one is flexible enough due to boosting estates, so it is not niche.

A ese punto, si ambos bandos han llegado hasta el lategame es lógico que al menos tengan posibilidad de ganar; de otro modo no tiene sentido seguir jugando para perder el tiempo. Tampoco tiene sentido que algunas solo estén enfocadas en rush y luego no tengan nada que hacer.

Los euros bastante ventaja tienen con la mejor artillería y fábricas.

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folwark boom is kinda bad, the timing is terrible, you are either vulnerable to hard rush or timing ff push. Eco in early to mid game is just average. Their main advantages as a civ comes from a very buffable cav archer and a good versatile hadjuk style skirm, along with versatile options for heavy cav, and their church tech and troops. their artillery is kinda bad, no buffs.

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18

Infinite fur trade only works in the very late game when you have no more shipments left. If u start sending infinite fur trade in mid game, you won’t be able to get more buffs from the other shipments, so you become weak and lose. If you play lakota or inca you would know that. You will need vills on coin for a long time before even considering moving all your economy to folwark/fur trade

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<<Again, im asking for a buff in early and a nerf in lategame, everyone happy>>

And the issue with this is??

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20

I think we’re going to see Poland underperform on the ladder. I absolutely love the civ, I love the design of it, I love the niches the units fit into. I’m really stoked to see the bug with the Lipka Tatars fixed which makes them two pop. But, the early game, on anything other than a fishboom, is just dangerous. Buildings in AoE3 are at best made of cardboard, which gets wetter and thinner until it becomes tissue paper in later ages. Yet, Poland’s are paper to begin with.

Their early villager card is functionally unusable. 100 wood + a shipment for a villager for each two buildings. Your cheapest building, the house, is 85 wood. For the immediate early game investment of 695 wood, the villager seconds to build seven houses and a shipment, they can build seven houses and send that card, for four villagers. Compare that to say, Germany, who can send two settler wagons, equal to four villagers, off the mark. Like, really consider in your mind, how absolutely and totally unworkable that card is to open with. And at no point does it get better.

Their fishboom is among the worst in the game, but is actually fairly solid, all things considered, to get the civ going.

I’ll acknowledge when it goes, it actually goes. But, the pigconomy is the star of the show, not the Agrarian Ways folwarks. Either option is still some serious investment to do something meaningful, putting up wood and possibly food or an age up reward initially, where another civ with their extra villagers are happily chowing down on some deer, aging up faster than you and rounding up their boys to come burn down your paper town centre.

Late game, they either have the second worst lancer, or the second best, depending on how much mileage you’re getting out of the improved trample feature. No matter what you make it’s choking on gold and if you’re flipping food into gold with the infinite card, you’re doing it at a negative exchange rate and not having the factories/cannons/upgrades/techs another civ is sending instead.

The Piechur is quite nice, but he’s not exactly powerful. He’s a good generalist who requires very low investment. The Pancerni is conceptually nice, but units which have big fire delays have some serious inherent problems in a game which has atrocious pathing and targeting issues. Upgrading alongside the hussar by cards makes this unit a tempting transition, but I’ve literally never heard anyone say cav archers are OP. Except that one time the Russian ones got the funny version of the trample damage.

To conclude:

I’m neither advocating for buffs or nerfs here. I think we’ve got some really serious drawbacks on this civ and some really nice options which no other civ has in a similar combination. For that reason it feels unique. And how something feels is dramatically more important than how good it is to play, although less important than how oppressive it is when it ruins other people’s gameplay.

I don’t think we need to nerf everything good to make everything the same. I think we need to see how it looks on the ladder with some data, before possibly buffing the Winged Hussar a touch. Nerfing things for the sake of it is just going to turn Poland into another civ nobody plays because it’s awful. Which isn’t most civs currently, but it has been some civs in the past.

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