I think we can all appreciate the changes in this PUP that give more uniqueness to various units models and civs. Small changes like Ghulams, Ghazis and Keshiks are a nice historical nod and it’s really great to see more changes in this direction.
Which makes it all the more confusing that ‘Knight Sabres’ was changed to ‘Knight Poleaxes’. A poleaxe is an infantry weapon (in fact it was basically THE infantry weapon in the late medieval era). It is a terrible weapon for a mounted Knight. It is not a sidearm. I would confidently make a wager that no mounted warrior ever went into battle with a lance AND a poleaxe. Short axes were occasionally used as sidearms but axes in general are not great cavalry weapons because they can easily get stuck in opponents and now you’re left without a weapon. Other than swords, the most common sidearm for mounted units was the mace.
And the kicker is that the Cavalry Sabre is such an iconic weapon for Eastern European Knights, so it was already well suited for the Rus. What they should have done is change the weapon to a straight sword by default, and then have it change to the current curved sword after the upgrade (similar to Delhi Knights and MAA after researching Honed Blades).
I hope this change can go the way of the boar from last PUP. Uniqueness is fine, but not at the cost of total historical fallacy. If anything, let’s give Poleaxes to some of the European MAA models!
This kind of lines up with the english King using a Zweihander.
I was pretty happy with the Poleaxe, mostly because A. I love polaxes and was very happy to see it in the game and B. the Rus Knight looks pretty bad IMO and despite the inaccuracy, this kinda made them feel a lot cooler.
I do still want the poleaxe, but I agree with your sentiment. How about this; they get rid of the Knight’s poleaxe but keep the Poleaxe for Rus and give it to their Spearman or shieldless MAA? Would be cool to keep still.
I never noticed the King, I thought it was just an oversized sword (which I guess I can forgive due to clarity) but yeah those protrusions make it pretty clear it’s a Zweihander. The big dane axe used one-handed by the Wynguard footmen is another strange decision (but another that I guess I can headcanon as ‘oversized for clarity’)
IMO you could give poleaxe to Rus or really any of the European MAA but if you wanted to tie it to an upgrade, the best suggestion I would have is as follows:
Switch the ‘Two-handed weapons’ HRE upgrade to use a longsword, not an axe. Then change ‘Heavy maces’ to ‘Heavy Weapons’ and have the combination ‘Two-handed Heavy Weapon’ be a poleaxe. Because giant two-handed maces were quite impractical and rarely used as well unless you’re Sauron
If talking about historical accuracy I want them to stay as far away from AoE2 as possible. They already copied the skirmisher, now this, I expect soon we’ll see flimsy sword whips with magical armor piercing abilities.
Dumb take. Why shouldn’t something purely cosmetic that doesn’t affect gameplay or balance be historically appropriate in a game about history? Might as well give them chainsaws or light sabers. It’s just a game right?
It being a less-historical type of blade (that was still a blade in history at that time, just on a different unit or type of fighter) isn’t the same as “give them chainsaws or lightsabers”. This is commonly known as an argument to absurdity.
It’s fine people care about these details, just as it’s fine others are more into the Rule of Cool. I don’t really know where I sit tbh, I appreciate historical detail, but games by their very nature end up being ahistorical in a number of ways, so for something like this (specifically) I’d prefer “cool” over “accurate”.
Then again I’d also be into a mod that turned all swords into lightsabers (if modifying art assets was possible), so
I like sabres too (especially curved sabres), but poleaxes are a pretty uncommon weapon typing. I like 'em.
And I never said poleaxes on this unit were accurate. I’m saying people often value “cool” or “accurate”, and there’s nothing wrong with what a person finds cool, vs. anyone else, vs. historical accuracy.
Thing is poleaxe is not a very “Rus” thing. It’s pretty common and not unique or iconic to Rus.
The series always have silly but cool stuff. I would not adverse to them using a ######## like in AOE2 which is of course not realistic either. Poleaxe is just not unique enough.
I see your point, but let’s say some people like Sabres, and some people like Poleaxes. So you can’t please everyone. Wouldn’t it make most sense to include the one that is the most historically accurate? And poleaxes ARE cool. I agree. So let’s add them to the units that actually used them - infantry! I think even if the weapon looks cool, they didn’t change the animation at all. So now you have a soldier swinging around a great big poleaxe one handed like a sword. It looks quite silly to me.
My answer is a bit of a cop-out, but “it makes the most sense” is something that’ll be different for different folks. Some people like the oversized weapon standing out. Some people like historical accuracy. The Rule of Cool is what makes sense for some folks, essentially.
Doesn’t mean folks shouldn’t complain. Maybe the devs will update it to be historically accurate.
I think maybe they think they can get away with it because it’s not as ingrained in pop culture. But for cosmetics, it just makes sense to be as accurate as possible (at least in terms of design, I can understand size exaggerations for clarity). You’ll never hear me say something like “crossbows should have a 30s reload time” because that’s related to gameplay. But imagine if they gave a Samurai a Chinese Dao or European Longsword. People would lose their minds.
That said, samurai are an interesting case though, almost an exception in themselves. The way they’ve been integrated into popular Western culture makes it difficult to work out whether the objection is historical, or due to pop culture.
In the latter case, the “look” of a samurai is often pretty sensationalised, when it’s not completely ahistorical itself (don’t get me started on ronin and the concept of honour).
Does anyone have any screenshots of the Knight using that weapon?
We just need some screenshots to test. I’m busy over the weekend and I won’t be able to play Aoe4, apart from the fact that I need to finish the Villagers challenge before installing the preview.
I repeat again, please if you can upload screenshots of the change, the new tech icon, etc. Although I have an idea that it is a poleaxe, I don’t know aesthetically how they are representing it. To me, the devs were thinking about making the unit look like the “Boyar” of the Rus from Aoe2DE, but I can’t say for sure without sources.
As an extra, to say that from the sources I read, the poleaxe is a more “French” weapon of the 15th and 16th centuries than of the Rus. If anyone knows more about it please let me know.
Here ya go. It is 100% a poleaxe from both the upgrade icon and the weapon design. It does not resemble the “shortened version of an axe whose name is censored” of the AOE2 Boyar unit at all.
And I actually really like the design of the weapon! Just not as a cavalry sidearm.
Yea. I’m more for keeping this than removing it if it means never having Poleaxes again; for I think they’re great.
But, I would’ve definitely prefered seeing some infantry using them. So it is somewhat bittersweet. Also I personally find the Rus knights to be really rough looking, so anything to improve their visuals is a plus.
