Pol for the last 9 civs devs should introduce into the game

Oh guys why you get me staaarted ( Bulgarian Here) Will try the short version. I have also posted in the forum before might try and find it. Anyway.

Slavs migrate to the Balkans couple of centuries before the Bulghars reach the Denube Delta. They have a war with the Bysantines win and have an alliance with the local Slavic tribes what forms the state a.k.a 1st Bulgarian Empire.

There are several debetas about this period. One how much the Bulghars actually were. It ranges between very few compared to the slavs to almost a half of the population. It is believed Bulghars were enough to have a serious military power but also the minority compared to the slavs.

Based on the archeology in the region of the first capital Pliska in that period around half of the graves found bare Bulghar traditions and another half Slav customs. It is likely the Bulghar population was mostly concentrated in that region while the expanse was in regions mostly populated with slavs.

Whatever the ratio between Slavs and Bulghars was in 681 with the expance of the Empire more and more Slavs were joining in the mix. By the 9th century in the Empire there is vast majority of Slavs than Bulghars, Romans and even good number of Avars who became subjects after the fall of the Avar Khaganate. You can say the Bulghars were dominant among the ruling elite and khans are ruling the state until that point while the vast majority of the population were Slavs.

What happens in the 9th and early 10th century is the formation of the Bulgarians as a common group of people. Very important in this process is the official Christianisation. By that time there were some christians in the empire but the pagan traditions were strong among both Slavs and Bulghars. In 866 Boris I adopts Christianity and bans all pagan beliefs. Later he retires and his son Vladimir leads a revold against Christianity. Boris I would return blind his own son, put him in a dungeon and massacre huge number of his son`s supporters (Bulghar noble families). Than put on the throne another of his sons Simeon (The Great).

Another important step is the formation of the medieval Bulgarian script (cyrillic) which is slavic based on local slavic dialects. By the 10th century there are no more Bulghars and Slavs there are Bulgarians. They are christians and have slavic culture. The vast majority of them are with slavic DNA anyway.

I list some fact you may interprete as you wish.

  • Bulghars are indeed supposed to be of turkic origin. Not all historians agree but its the dominant hypothesis.
  • They always were the minority of the population in medieval Bulgaria while they were the majority of the ruling class.
  • By the 10th century based on common religion and written language the Bulgarian people is formed and it has slavic culture.
  • As a matter of fact there were 4 states in the Middle ages called Bulgaria. Òld Great Bulgaria (Bulghars), Volga Bulgaria (Bulghras), First Bulgarian Empire (Bulgarians), Second Bulgaria Empire( Bulgarians). The terms Bulghars and Bulgarians are modern and they only serve the purpose to differenciate between: the turkic, pagan, seminomadic Bulghars from the slavic (castles, Krepost , monastery building, christian) Bulgarians.
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South Asia and Africa are the two areas that need more coverage the most.
getting some more civs in the Americas would be nice too but there isn’t many that could fit well.

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Ok, so “nomansland” can just mean wherever people you don’t find interesting inhabit? Even when they have densely-populated cities?

Funny, you just recreated the same logic the Europeans came up with when they declared that native Americans had no soul, and therefore the Europeans could take over all their lands
 It’s nice to be able to make up definitions on the go just to suit your wishes I guess.

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yup nomansland that didnt need to be conquerd i cant imagine they fought so much like europaens and had many enemys. thats why their not made for aoe2

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The eastern Slavs (Ruthenians) were always dominated by a wooden architect. For hundreds of years, Moscow was completely built up with wooden buildings - only the Kremlin was made of brick.
The inhabitants of Moscow set fire to their wooden city so that Napoleon would not get it. According to estimates, the fire consumed:

6,496 out of 9,151 residential buildings (including 6,584 wooden and 2,567 brick buildings)

So we see the domination of wooden buildings. It was only after this fire that the construction of brick houses began. Petersburg, due to the fact that it was a planned city, was a brick city.

It is also worth noting that the Vikings and the Finno-Ugric people exerted a huge influence on the Ruthenians - after all, the Rurik dynasty comes from the leader of the Varangians - Rurik, who settled at the invitation of the rebellious population of the future Novgorod principality and became their ruler around 862. He is considered the founder of the Ruthenian state.

Hence, Vikings and Ruthenians could use the same style of architecture. The only thing I would change with the Ruthenians is Wonder. The current Wonder is Kizhi Pogost, which is located in Karelia (Finno-Ugric land). I think if there was a Finnish civ she could use it as her own Wonder. Ruthenians could use a different structure, for example:

Saint Basil’s Cathedral

Saint Sophia Cathedral, Kyiv

Cathedral of St. Sophia, Novgorod

Byzantine architecture is very different from the rest of the Mediterranean. It fits perfectly with the presentation of the Eastern Balkans and the Caucasus.

No other Slavic civ fits the Byzantine style more than the Bulgarian civ. Bulgarians modeled themselves on the Byzatines, and they conquered their territories and conquered their cities. The Bulgarian civ definitely deserves to share this style of architecture with the Byzantines, Georgians and Armenians. Besides, all these civs are located along the Black Sea.

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Moreover, warfare, which was apparently frequent, produced larger alliances and even confederacies.

Native American were humans like everybody else. They were not less or more peaceful than those from the Old World.

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That’s true and after I read your post I must agree the Slavs should get this same wooden type architechture.

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It would not even be that hard to create a universal style for Vikings and Rus. Buildings would be made of logs. The only problem we could have been with the Monastery, but I think we could think of something.

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We need to write a guide for non-european history so we dont need to answer all the misconceptions about Indians and Native Americans ever again

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If you have the time and patience to write a 100 page guide sure :smile:

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I genuinely like this approach.

@MUTYLATOR5553 @CelticKeeper @DarthPyro4335 Should we do the same for the different slavic, baltic and balkan civs or from eastern Europe in general?
Could put an end to the false assumptions of them being the same.

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Moldavians and Transylvanians missing from poll.

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We dont need 3 Romanian civs. One civ can represent all of them and we dont even need one of those necesarily (also theres more important things than Moldavians and Vlachs missing even then)

You have Vlachs to vote

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Personally we don’t need more European civs at all.

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You starting this circle again? But I agree on Romanians or Vlachs as 1 civ to represent all 3.

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Think less of what civs personally bother you and more of which ones would make for great additions and why and how, otherwise I see another thread getting heated or closed eventually.
This goes for all civ suggestions as Szaladon preaches.

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I didnt say that we shouldnt have them. I said that they arent totally necesary

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That’s how it starts my friend. Next up is someone saying one of your civ suggestions isn’t totally necessary.

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With a bit luck, we get all of them. If not, too bad. It’s better to get something than nothing I guess.

What worries me is that the second SteamDB DLC got deleted. I really hope it’s just a test branch and means nothing else.

Considering Forgotten Empires is hiring people, we’ll keep seeing their stuff which might include even more AOE2 DLC.

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Thing is I think Forgotten Empires doesn’t even have some kind of roadmap. They add stuff on the get-go, at least it seems so, considering they didn’t even plan to add DLCs for DE (even though HD was a tremenduous success, they should have kinda expected that ngl).

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