This can also be applied to other units like Musketeers (there are already a bazillion variants in the game).
Even more specific units like the Tercios and Caroleans were also a mixture of units (pikes, muskets)
I don’t know what your point is, that just because there were several kinds of Qizilbash in Persia in real life, there should none in a Persian civ in the game?
In that case, the Persians shouldn’t have Tofangchi or Ghulams either, for the same reason. Even the Qurchi you’ve mentioned here. What unit can they have then?
No, I think your idea was valid and that you shouldn’t recant it. Age 2/3 Persian units would probably be modeled to wear the red turban of the Qizilbash, before then modifying their uniform with later upgrades to reflect Naderian and Qajar infantry. They would only technically be Qizilbash for that period roughly equivalent to the Safavid era.
You didnt’t have to remove your post. You still gave valid and interesting feedback.
I personally think that both the Ghulams and Qizilbash could have more than one unit in a hypothetical Persian civ, with the Qurchi being one of the most interesting options, or maybe as an upgrade for the Qizilbash, there are many options.
It would particularly interesting with the Ghulams, since we could have units speakint different languages (Georgian, Armenian or Circassian)
I like this idea and it should probably be part of the Persian civ, regardless of whether we have a Qizilbash cavalry unit or not. Or perhaps it would gain an Afsharid appearance after being upgraded (to jazayerchi perhaps?)
My original point is that we shouldn’t restrict what a Persian should have based on just a religious settlement. Which should probably be reworked in the future anyway, even if we don’t we get the Persians.
And the same goes for the Zamburak, which shouldn’t be a unique unit for India, since Persians and Afghans also used it.
Qizilbash were Shia, while Sufis are mainly Sunni.
Even if we can explain that the Qizilbash of the Sufi minor civ are ex-Sunni Sufis who were forcibly converted to Shia by the order of the Safavid dynasty, I feel like the Sufi unit should still be replaced by a more appropriate one to represent whole the Sufis, and it will be a nice timing for the Qizilbash to be handed over to the Persians.
Sufi cannot be simply divided into Sunnis or Shiites. It is essentially the totality of Islamic mysticism sects. Both Sunnis and Shiites have a large number of Sufi mysticism sects. The Safavid sect of the Persian Safavid dynasty is also a typical Sufi sect
My suggestion is to further refine the Sufi sect into smaller well-known denominations, such as the Mevlevi sect (the Sufi sect that leans towards Sunnis and is known for its spin dance rituals), the Nagshbandiya sect (the Sufi sect that leans towards Sunnis and has a profound influence in Central Asia), and the Bektash sect (the Sufi sect that leans towards the Twelve Imams and is more Shia); Similarly, Buddhism should not be simply a Japanese style Zen or Shaolin temple, but should be distinguished between Theravada Buddhism and Tibetan Gelug Buddhism
Yes, I think they will arrive in the next European dlc…
Sure, in The Warchiefs…civs that became major civs received units similar to the ones they had as minor civs…
It still fits the game since AoE 3 starts in 1421 a decade after the battle of Grunwald and you can have the Polish golden age until 1568 and its subsequent decline until the last partition until 1795… you can even put Congress Poland (1815-1915)…
Obviously…Poland saved Europe…
Sure, I couldn’t have said it better, I agree with everything…
Poland as new faction? Great idea for example with King Jan III Sobieski as main character and Historical Battles as Kircholm (1605) , Klushino (1610) , Khotyn 1621 and 1673 ( the second battle won Jan Sobieski soon before he became King of Poland, Berestechko 1651 (the biggest battle in all XVII century) and especially Vienna 1683 with the most famous Winged Hussars charge in history.
Poland’s trait could be that it’s all about their Cavalry and their Nobles! Specifically a unique building called the Dwór - the Magnate court/house. Historically the PLC nobility - the Szlachta, had masses of power and would have influence and power in everything, whether it be the military, economy, religion and politics. They even raised private armies and commisioned many foreign armies through these Magnate houses.
PLC’s Pros:
Exceptional but expensive roster of cavalry
Can send auxillary unit shipments (via the Dwór) Dwór - You start with a Dwor wagon and every age up you get +1 added to the build limit.
PLC Negatives:
Weak infantry
Reliance on foreign army shipments to plug in the gaps
Access to 1 Factory
Lack Skirms, Crossbows, Halberdiers, Pikes, Dragoons,
Hero unit: Grand Hetman
Unique Buildings Dwór - These Magnate’s residences have a few uses:
Nobility Aura - a very small aura which effects buildings close-by (as in sitting next door), Nobility effects buildings in different ways: 1. Next to eco buildings - gather rate increases by a small percent 2. Next to military buildings - discounts unit costs by a small percent 3. Next to Churches/Taverns - boost their trickle by a small amount
Ship Foreign armies - Basicila-style shipment system to send for batches of standard Euro Infantry (Muskets+Pikemen) as well as Dragoon shipments.
Ship Commonwealth auxillaries - send batch of neighbouring ‘outlaw’ units such as Hajduks and Registered Cossacks (Cossack Daredevil)
Unique techs to research that range from eco to military, including possibly being able to select a noble family for the selected Dwor - which could change the Nobility aura to focus on one type of building for a greater effect, for example one Noble family might focus all on Mills (reference to Folworks) effecting gather rate to a bigger percentage while having no effect on barracks/stables/artillery etc.
Unique Units
Infantry: Wybraniecka - Polish Musketeers, very cheap but less health than typical musketeers. Peasant Partisans - Melee militia armed with flails and other farm tools that can be trained from Mills/Estates. Weak Halberdier-slot type.
Whoosh, that’s it all for infantry. PLC really didn’t bother with native Pikemen (only NCOs used Pikes/Halberds) - you will have to ship in standard (‘Foreign’) Pikes and Musketeers!
Cavalry
3 different unit lines plus a Chorąży (banner-carrying) cav unit for each line. Winged Hussar - Similar to current native unit. The Lancer-style heavy cav. Pancerni - Armoured Cossacks that occupies the Hussar slot. Armed with shield, warhammer/pick. Has a Charged Shot ability with its musketoon. Lipka Tatars - Similar to current native unit. Occupies their ranged light cavalry slot. Chorąży - Cavalry Bannermen for each Cav type, i.e Winged Hussar Chorąży,Pancerni Chorąży, etc. Their banner improves surrounding cav of that type. Very limited to build limit (which can be increased via shipments).
Artillery: Tabor Wagon - Not really artillery as such, rather a moving fortress! A wagon and horse both covered with wooden armour that can garrison ranged infantry in to fire on the move (has no weaponary on its own), however this wagon can also deploy on ground (in typical building-wagon style) to fortify its position. As a Tabor Wagon Fort it can not only still contain garrisoned musketeers (providing a safe haven for the otherwise weak Polish muskets), it also provides a ranged-attack absorbing radius and can be upgraded via shipments to heal nearby units (PLC have no access to Surgeons and their camps) and is more resistant to both melee and ranged attacks.
Exclusive Mercs: Lisowczyks (Mercenary) - Availalbe only as HC merc shipments or a tech shipment to unlock them at the Tavern. Lisowczyks niche is as a Light Cavalry unit that excels in raiding villagers and plundering buildings for resources. Can also hunt and forage.
Town Center units: Peasants (insert appropriate Polish name here if needed) - Standard Settler Noble Levy - Cavalry version of Militiamen, with shorter ranged attack and better bonuses against artillery. Wallachian Light Cavalry - Very light reconnaissance cavalry that has a very large area of sight when at a standstill. Armed with a sabre. Trains via TC (weak as other scout units in the 1st age) with a build limit.
Age-up / Revolution option
Similar to the French, PLC get access to an alternate Age Up - to the Duchy of Warsaw which includes:
Upgrades Winged Hussars to Uhlani (tougher, reskinned Uhlan)
Pancerni become ‘standard’ Hussars
Peasant Partisans become Scythemen
Regarding Royal Natives:
Winged Hussars can be replaced by: No idea! I’m sure there could be a Swedish/PLC replacement here somewhere.
Lipka Tatars can be replaced by: Lithuanian Pancerni (this was the Lithuanian equivalent with proper name however this is censored bizarrely!)
It may sound controversial but I think that the mansion could be a replacement for the Town Centre. Of course, the Poles would start the game with this center, but they wouldn’t be able to build it later. The Dwór would have the features of a ton center and would also have an impact on the efficiency of the Folwark (polish Unique Farm building) and Cham (unique Eastern European Villager). Everytime newly built this building with a larger limit of Szlachcic (polish Hero unit). Of course, this building would be much more expensive than this one, but it would offer what I wrote above.
Polish armies were a bit different from other European armies, since infantry and artillery were usually of foreign origin. Maybe some of the units are redundant (I personally would only keep half of the proposed units), but I think his suggestions are grounded in History. What exactly is the problem?
Usually people argue against adding new Europeans civ since they were would be very similar to the current ones (especially with the unit roster), but in this case he has done the opposite
Personally, I hope to expand European countries into the twelve most important countries in the European region during this period, including Britain, France, Germany, Russia, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Ottoman, Sweden, Italy, Austria, and Poland. Having more European countries is actually a reasonable behavior, and this period is indeed the golden age of Europe. (Personally, I am against Malta, but it has become a fait accompli. Perhaps in the future, some mechanism can be used to distinguish smaller major civilizations from the core hegemonic civilizations.)
Italy weren’t one of the the most imporant countries during that period, it was controlled by French/Spanish/Austrian (Germans). Danes/Denmark-Norway were since they were involved in the 30 years war and the Napoleonic Wars (not always victors, but still much more involved than the non-existant Italy), had colonies in the Caribbean, West Africa and India and had a formidable navy during AoE3’s timeline.