Can you please make it multi option voting. I believe speed needs to be improved or squires should be given for free from feudal age plus bonus damage vs buildings should increase, especially vs houses and walls.
Give them starting with Man-At-Arms a shield system like the shivamsha rider to dodge arrows. To make it more realistic. So they actually defend themselves against archers.
Also i think archers need to be nerfed, they are too overpowered.
And militia line should have bonus damage against archers, because if you attack them in real with a sword from upclose you hit them hard because they have less armor. So the actual close combat should be in favor of the man-at-arms and further upgrades. While archers only win if they keep their distance. That would make it realistic and fair.
Same goes for knights, they win if they actually reach the close combat. Thats why longbows are such a total nightmare with their immense range. But for a man-at-arms the basic arher is already a nightmare because it also walks faster.
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yea but thats realistic. because cav archer is a on a horse. and a normal archer is on its own two legs.
because against cav archers you use light cavā¦ militia line is no hard counter to cav archers lol.
but an archer with less (visble) armor should die to a sword to two well placed hits in my opinion. now it takes 10 hits to murder an archer if you ever make close contact. while a normal archer can just run away, and the militia canāt even charge at an archer and the man-at-arms canāt use itās shield to dodge.
Mass infantry to destroy TC in feudal age?
Honestly, I am a bit frustrated of over half of the militia buff post turning into xbow/knight nerf post. Another hit to archer civs is a good idea? Nerf xbow/knight in castle age. We will have cav archer meta and then sb ask to nerf cav archer. Then raiding become ineffective, turning meta to walling and boomimg. Arabia turns to Arena playing style.
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Ofcourse! iām a Goths enthusiast haha, what did you expect 
That would be really strange. Most people would rather see the opposite happening
People suggested making the Milita Line being able to build Rams.
I should have added that to the poll.
That would be kinda odd considering that the Militia Line uses a low range weapon (sword) while other units like the Spearman Line use a longer weapon (spear/halberd).
No unit should have negative Eagle Warrior armour (that you want to rename to Scout armour?) because all Infantry UUs have like 1-3 (with the exception of Teutonic Knight) bonus damage vs. Eagle Warriors so that would increase a lot. That includes ranged units like Chakram Thrower.
Rather give the Scout Line a +2 on Eagle Warrior armour to reduce the bonus damage. Then MAA have 0 bonus damage against them.
But why not give MAA sine bonus damage vs. Scouts, Scout rush is already more then powerful enough.
I think single option voting gives a better result and also prevents trolls from voting with āno changeā and something else at the same time.
Also I think there should always only be one buff at a time. Donāt double buff a unit.
Infantry could easily snowball to be unstoppable for civilisations that donāt have any units that directly counter Infantry if it was buffed too much.
Currently the meta favours Knights over Archers. Making Archers even worse would shift the Meta even more towards Knights.
Also some unit has to counter the Milita Line. What other unit (that is available to every civilisation) would do that job?
Nerving the two most important units in the game would complete throw off the balance of everything.
Every other unit, especially unique unit, is balanced around those two.
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Letās go around circle.
In that case Militia line will stay subpar forever I guess.
I would rather add new units to counter the Militia Line instead of giving the role to a unit that is already very good.
Double buffs arenāt necessarily stronger than single buff if theyāre small. Like +30 hp or +0.3 speed is more powerful than +5 hp and +0.05 speed simultaneously. My opinion is militia line needs this kind of small but multiple buffs to speed, bonus vs buildings and hp till longswords.
Surely, pikes and halbs will also get +0.3 range so they will be easier to attack cavalry.
In my thought, units who get +0.3 range are
- LS, 2HS, Chanpion, Legionary, Pikes, Halbs, Teutonic knights, Kamayuk, Condottiero, Urumi swords.
Militia, maa and spear arenāt included because they have good feudal rushes now.
I think the counter does not need to be trash unit. (i suppose you are talking about mid-game counter, where gold is abundant) Currently, cavalry archer is good enough to counter militia, even better than hand cannoneer imo. You can even work further on CA if you really need one. But do it after militia become viable
Just adjust their bonus dmg to 0/+1 accordingly
I believe we can perfectly make the milicia line a common unit without making light cav counter them.
A unit designed around being strong against trash units and weak to most gold units (xbows, HC, HCA/EA, scorpions/onagers, cavaliers to some extend) is an entirely fine and feasible design.
If we really want a trash counter to them, halberdiers would be an option as well. It oukd be like skirms counter archers (same building unit counter each other) and more satisfying than pikes counter knights while hussars counter champions.
A big problem with hussars countering champions is that they are already the most popular 1v1 imperial age unit, due to being by far the best raiding unit (trash unit idling the whole ememy eco), so champions wouldnt be more viable if countered by hussars. Unless they have a really crazy upside against other units.
Have you tried out how impactful a +0.3 range is? Can the game even handle <1 range correctly?
I agree. Milita is the trash killer, so they should only be countered by Gold units.
Currently yes, but a buffed Militia Line should be too strong to be countered by Cavalry Archers alone. They rely on the fact that they can dance around Infantry unharmed because of their speed but if their DPS is too low the Infantry can cause too much damage before they die. You canāt train Cavalry Archers when the Infantry can just quickly tear down all your Archery Ranges before you can kill them.
The other issue is that you would force civs that are missing multiple technologies for Cavalry Archer (Thumb Ring, Parthian Tactics, Heavy Cavalry Archer, Ring Archer Armour or Bracer) into a dead end unit before they can switch to something like Hand Cannons in Imperial Age.
Militia counter ideas
Mounted Crossbowman
- Replaces the Cavalry Archer for civs with bad Cavalry Archers
- Cost: 40 Wood 70 Gold (+10 Gold)
- HP: 60 (+10 HP)
- Attack: 5 (-1 attack)
- Attack vs. Infantry: +3
- Range: 4
- Accuracy: 80% (+30%)
- Armour: 0/0
- Speed: 1.35 (-0.05)
They are less of a generalist unit because they have lower base attack and a little lower speed. They have the same speed as Knights now.
They get a much better base Accuracy though because the unit is intended to civilisations that donāt have Thumb Ring.
They have effectively the same damage against the Spearman Line.
Staff Slinger
- Replaces Hand Cannon for none Gunpowder Civs
- Numbers compared to Incan Slinger
- Cost: 30 Food 50 Gold (-10 Food, +10 Gold)
- HP: 35 (-5)
- Attack: 4
- Attack vs. Infanty: +4 (-6)
- Attack vs. Stone Defence: +4 (+4)
- Range: 5
- Minimum Range: 1
- Accuracy: 90%
- Armour: 0/0
- Speed: 0.96
Generally a worse version of the Slinger but with the one upside that they are somewhat helpful for besieging enemy defence. They are not good at tearing down other buildings though.
Generally a unit that you would build as a reaction to Infantry and not for your own main push.
Axeman
- New Castle Age Infantry
- Numbers compared to Jaguar Warrior
- Cost: 30 Food 40 Gold (-30 Food, +10 Gold)
- HP: 60 (-5)
- Attack: 15 (+5)
- Attack vs. Infantry: +10
- Reload time: 3 (+1)
- Armour: 2/1 (+1/-1)
- Speed: 1
Gold heavy Infantry that is strong against other Infantry but weak against Archers. They should be able to hold their ground against most cavalry though.
Hard hitting but slowly attacking (3 reload time instead of 2) makes them good against heavily armoured targets.
Generally less cost efficient against anything but Infantry compared to Long Swordsman with Supplies.
They have a small speed advantage over Long Swordsman which helps them catching up with them.
Elite upgrades
All those units could get Elite Upgrades in Imperial Age too.
Obviously not every civilisation would need to get an Elite upgrade to those units.
Balance team and a big portion of the community is afraid that once infantry become strong, you can just win by camping enemy gold. So a having a trash counter is good for removing that fear. Then we can just buff them at our heartās content.
The bonus attack wonāt need to be big. Just +1/+2/+3 for LC/Hussar/W.Hussar to nullify the extra buff that militia line will get. For example, if Gambeson also gives +1 MA, then LC can get just +1 attack bonus. In reality, Iād call for even bigger stat buff for militia line while removing the āThere is no trash counter to infantry. You canāt buff them too much. They will be OP.ā argument.
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I think we have to make a difference between having a hard-counter and just being a bad unit.
Crossbows and KTs are good units with hard-counters.
MIlitia instead is a bad unit without trash hard-counters (at least until gunpowder appears).
Militia canāt be a good unit, at the level of Cross of KTs, just because would be super OP if you donāt have a trash counter unit to face themā¦
No, Itās my imagination completely. However, fire galley line has 2.49 range now.
Archer line and CA line hard counters Militia line tbh.
Exactly. But they can be at the level of some infantry UU.
But they are no trash units. Sorry, I was talking about trash counters.
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Well, you literally said until gunpowder. So I thought you meant all units.
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Idk it htis is the right thread, but how the game is atm I would actually like to see some tests done with the unit via civ specific bonusses / UTs.
Some civs that feel āoffā atm are predestined for this kind of Tests. Examples:
Bulgarians: Bulgarians militia line from MAA could be able to construct Siege Towers, potentially even a civ Bonus that reduces the cost for them.
Romans: Romans lose the āarmor doublingā for Infantry. Instead they get plate barding and whenever they research an Armor tech for their Infantry, the milita line gets a slowly recharging melee dealing javelin to be thrown at rimalrily enemy archers and siege. They start with 2 after the feudal armor upgrade.
To use the javelins, the militia line has to bw swapped to a ranged mode, similar to the Ratha mode swap.
I also would like to see a test of a UT that gives the Militas the ability to share damage taken with nearby other militia. Atm because of the Design as a kinda low-HP immobile melee unit, militias canāt really be used effectively in skirmish/slow push situations with concentrated forces. As they donāt deal Damage to the opponent but cause of the kinda low HP can be taken out before they can be healed up again.
With the shared damage Taken they would be way more useful for that without buffing them for the infamous floods.
WHihc is kinda ironic, cause when you look historically the major forces of the large-scale military encounters were almost always basic infantry. Just in this game by design the Militia line is just not suitable for that. So I would like to see what happens when there is a tech to specifically buff them for exactly this.
I could see this added to civs like Aztecs or Burmese.