Berbers get that for their villagers, fishing ships and trade cogs, and while it’s good on trade cogs (because they are really fast right from the start) it barely improves villager working rate because +10% of not really fast isn’t very impressive. Since for Berbers it’s a Dark age bonus, it’s useful for boar luring and escaping early raid, but it’s useless once in castle whith Xbows and knights everywhere, so using an UT slot for that really sounds meh. As to effect on carts, I have no idea, but snce trade is a late game thing, it really sound weak and much worse than Sultan or Silk road.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
It’s true, but the bothering thing is that it’s supposed to be a team tech and yet it’s much more useful in 1v1 than in team games.
The good thing is that many people discuss this and most people want changes making the Vietnamese stronger. I hope the devs read this topic Whatever it might be, a buff will be nice and might make the civ more popular in 1v1/ 2v2 , now it is not so
Well, it’s not for bragging, but the other post I made aboyt viets reached 270 commentaires… So, I guess it should be taken in account by devs, since pretty everyone from me up to Viper tjinks viets need a buff
Vietnamese got a buff when DE came out with a few new techs. Although not a bad idea to give them something else, I think it’s time the Goths get something over these guys first. Eco bonus, for both civs in question, would make the most sense.
The gave them Husbandry, but EBE lost 2 attack. Yeah, now they can be created faster, but with vietnamesse economy that doesn’t help that much. Paper money is cheaper, but again, not a real buff. I think the Husbandry for less attack is a bad trade, and I see it as a nerf
Hmm… I think I explained badly. What I meant was that when you place a farm, it starts to generate food income while consuming its.
So lets say it has 175 food on feudal. With the bonus (+20%), it would have 210 food and would start to generate food. So consumes 1 food and gives you 1 automatically with a rate which is slower than a relic.
Because the speed is slower than a relic, you won’t notice its effect till you have a bunch of farms (castle) and the wood saved (by +20% farms) and the better food income would make your economy viable for both archer production and elephants (they aren’t that good because they lack some upgrades in the blacksmith, compensated by their health).
Also against Vietnamese, you would need to pay attention to destroy their farms as well as they generate resource.
It’s a mixed bag, but in summation I think it’s a slight nerf. It’s an unequivocal buff for Castle age, since the regular BE attack isn’t affected, but they produce faster. It’s obviously a nerf for late Imp, but arguably less so for Burmese and Viets, who use elephants more as support units for tanking damage (obviously having higher attack is always good, but they’re best used as support tanks for archers or Arambai). I think it’s a more significant nerf to Malay and Khmer, who will more likely use elephants as their main force, and thus need them to be optimized in every aspect of combat. It’s as if the Khmer Tusk Swords tech, for example, went from granting +3 to +1 damage compared to HD.
I don’t think you always go for elephants as support, with viets oe Burmese. Soecially Burmese, they elephants tend to be a main force. I still think they should regain at least 1 attack
True, you don’t always. I haven’t seen it much though, except in DM/long BF games where players will always go for the strongest units. Burmese generally have better options though, and going for infantry or Arambai is generally going to be a better choice, with a few elephants to tank archer fire. Same with Viets - going straight elephants is an option, but it’s usually going to be less effective than focusing on archers. My point is that the battle elephant, while useful, is less of a focal point for Viets and Burmese, who have other unit lines that are more heavily incentivized - even in HD, Malay and Khmer ele rushes were fairly viable strategies, but were very rare for Viet/Burmese. As for Khmer, well, your choices are (A) Go elephants, (B) Go scorps, or (C), go for the ele-scorp love child, the ballista elephant. As always, you can choose to make other units, but all of the strengths of the civilization are designed around those 2 unit types. And the design/UTs that benefit Viet/Burmese eles make them well suited to tanky roles more than raiding/dps roles. Again, not saying the attack doesn’t matter, just that IMO missing attack is a greater nerf to the role of Malay/Khmer elephants than to the Burmese/Viet elephants.
Yeah, I know what you meant. Burmese and vieta have more options than khmer, but you can’t always use them all. Archers plus elephants it’s a expensive combo. With vietnamesse i like to play imp. Skirmishers plus battle elephants (50% of the time. The other 50% I play archers) With Burmese, I like infantry plus elephants. But what I mean is elephants are really expensive bith too recruit and upgrade to be “just a meat shield” like hussars are. And therefore, they should be always useful as an offensive force, even if you’re ussing them as meatshield. On the other hand, Burmese have 2 good eco bonuses, so thwir eco its good. It’s always the same answer: Viets need an eco bonus
There are 3 stages of the game that we might call the early, mid and the late game. Originally, in early game, their eco and military is normal. In mid game their eco and military is weak. In late game the eco is not horrible but their military is really weak. Why are they weak in late game?
Viets lack the last gold mining tech.
They lack blast furnace
They don’t have good offensive unit or siege unit such as Siege Rams, Siege Onagers, Heavy Scorpions.
Their castle unit is Rattan archer, which is good at taking arrow fire only and weak at killing everything else even compare to Skirms when comes to killing archers.
Viets BE is only good at being meatshield and to a lesser extend base pushing. That means they need to be used with a strong offensive units because they can do nothing much by themselves and will be melted down by any hit and run unit. Lacking blast furnace result in very weak Champions and BE thus limiting their offensive choices.
Now for the sake of comparison we have a look at Khmer and Burmese and Malay. Khmer has double shot heavy scorpion, Burmese has Arambai and anti building better armored Elephants, Malay have cheap BE + Karambit spam which can swamp range units, they also have heavy scorpion to deal with mass archer so they can still be quite dangerous…
The point is that all these civs have all have a strong offensive unit for late game.
What good offensive unit does Viet have for a strong late game push compare to these?
The lastest bonus give them a nice boost for mid game eco, but their late game is still underwhelming.
They might not need a late game eco boost, but they need a late game military boost. Maybe giving them heavy scorpion? Maybe giving them blast furnace?
I think that’s totally wrong and I think we will see a lot more of Vietnamese now.
They are an archer civ and they have good archers to carry their lategame. Especially the Rattan Archer is and always was a pretty good unit in my opinion. Excellent damage output. Bulky against ranged unit. Somewhat fast to micro against melee units.
Their Halbs have everything they need to do well against cavalry.
Their Light cav is not great, but still a useable raiding option.
Imperial Skirms should make their post imp gameplay decent as well.
I expect them to be in a pretty good spot and I’m going to start playing them.
If further boost, i’ll give them mansonery , or maybe more hp to rattan. That’s it.
I think viets are really good now. The eco bonus the received is huge. Now they won’t fall behind in eco.
They have a really excellent archer line, UU is a very good archer in certain situations and imp skirmishers are awesome. They have a decent stable and barracks, and the elephants can take a lot of damage. I think give them blast furnance could be a little op, since they wont have weaknesses anymore (yeah, they don’t get nice siege, but they do get cannons and long living elephants)
When I first opened the toppic about buffing them, I complained about the eco being their problem. Well, that’s solve
Is it really THAT big of a deal? After all Goths lack it as well and no one ever thought that it had anything to do with Goths being weak.
Rattan and eles are made to tank ranged damage, they don’t need that
They do get FU BBC (not to mention no one cares about scorpions if they are not bonused, and normal onagers with SE are enough most of the time.
False, they are better than arbalesters from a pop and gold efficiency point as I kill myself repeating/testing it.
But when compared to Skirms they are better at killing everything else. The sheer versatility of Rattans is what makes them a better choice than skirms when gold is available.
Bombard cannon? An archer that deals more damage than Arbs?
No, such champions are statistically better than those who lack the last armor upgrade, and will easily stomp 2 handed swordsmen, Shotel warriors and Eagles.
It’s not like Viets lack options to kill cav archers you know.
Which results in a grand 10% damage increase.
Anyway why would you compare Viets to other Rise of the Raja civs only? Viets have always been perceived as above average when it comes to late game, and many civs would like to get FU BBC, bombard towers and a unit with better stats than Paladins.
I think more attack plus more hp is too much. If any, I would either give a little more hp to rattan/Arbalesters. The idea of the civs is to win battle due to resistance, not to higher damage output
Whatever it might be, a buff will be nice and might make the civ more popular in 1v1/ 2v2 , now it is not so