Which civs in this list do you think could/should be added to the game?
Chichimecas (Chichimeca Confederation)
Otomi (Teotihuacán/Metztitlán)
Toltecs [Aztecs] (Toltec Empire)
Tlaxcaltecs [Aztecs] (Tlaxcala)
Purépechas/Tarscans (Purépecha Empire)
Tecos (Kingdom of Colima)
Totonacs (Totonacapan)
Zapotecs (Monte Albán, Mitla, Zaachila)
Mixtecs (La Mixteca)
Mayas [Mayans] (Chichen Itza, Uxmal, Mayapan)
Itzas [Mayans] (Dos Pilas, Tikal)
K’iche’ [Mayans] (Kingdom of Q’umarkaj)
Chontals [Mayans] (Kingdom of Tabasco)
Huastecs [Mayans] (Tamohi)
Lencas (Quelepa)
Miskitos (Mosquito Coast)
Tainos/Arawaks (Chiefdoms of Borikén, Marién, Maguá…)
All of them!
None
I don’t know
I don’t care
Other(s)
0voters
Additionally, how many of those civs do you think should be added?
1-2
3-4
5-6
7-8
9+
All of them!
None
I don’t know
I don’t care
0voters
For those who participated in my polls about the Early Middle Ages and expect the next one to be about the 10th and 11th centuries, I’m sorry but I’ve come to the conclusion that polls focusing on time periods were too much works and were not necessarily the most interesting ones. Especially since the list of options was growing bigger and bigger with time, to the point I might have to do regional polls for each time period. On the other hand, I’ve been disatisfied with my American poll for a long time because of the many civs I didn’t take into account and I’ve decided to come back to it, this time focusing on specific parts of the continent. I hope I didn’t forget any relevant civilisation this time and I hope you enjoy the poll, and more importantly I hope it will bring interesting conversations regarding Meso civs in game.
With that being said, let’s vote!
From what I could find Yucatec is the name of their language, but it’s been given to them by foreign scientists (I don’t know if you can call it an exonym when it’s a language rather than a people) and it seems those people call themselves Maya and nothing else. So I ended up concluding that Mayans was an umbrella civ from which the Mayas could be split, and I couldn’t miss the opportunity to play with this idea.
You could call them Yucatecs, Itzás, or Lowland or Yucatec Mayas. I see you have a separate category for Itzas, but it seems strange for it to not include Chichen Itza. I get the logic of breaking up the civ, but if that is done, it doesn’t make sense to me to keep a civ called “Mayas” without some qualifier (e.g. Yucatec, Highland, Lowland, etc). Imagine DOI making an Indians split, but keeping a civ called “Indians.” This is better than that of course, but still kind of iffy I think.
I’m agnostic about whether there should actually ever be a Maya split, although you can make a decent argument for it (better than Burgundians anyway), and broadly dividing between lowland (Yucatec, Coastal, Tikal region) and highland (Kʼicheʼ region, Copan, Palenque/Chiapas) makes a lot of sense, and would provide opportunities to represent many (especially Yucatec) Maya attributes that are not reflected in game.
The only must-have on this list IMO is the Purépechas, although Toltecs, Mixtecs, and/or Zapotecs would be fun, I just think unrealistic given rate and type of additions in DE. I’ve been against Tlaxcaltecs in the past because of the massive cultural/ethnic/linguistic/military overlap with Aztecs, however I’m warming up to them lately as a defensive Meso civ that heavily emphasizes their alliance with the Spanish as a way for them to access gunpowder and/or cav.
The others I consider a stretch, however it would be fun to have some Editor units for them. Say a Taino war canoe or Piragua (a new coastal Maya civ could have this as well), Otomi Warriors, or Toltec “Atlantean” Warriors.
If the Tlaxcaltec would be become a civ I would give them Otomi as their Unique Unit. (A melee unit with a charged range attack. They throw their javelin before running into melee combat.)
The Otomi often served as mercenaries in different armies. For example, the first Tlaxcala attack on Hernán Cortés was also done by a contingent of Otomi.
The main reason to add Tlaxcaltec with an Otomi UU is flexibility in campaigns.
Besides the Tlaxcala own campaign that mirrors Montezuma campaigns. Like the Burgundians mirrored Joan of Arc.
The Tlaxcaltec can easily be renamed to Otomi for the Purépechas/Tarscans campaign because a lot of Otomi lived in the border region of the two empires.
It will give two civ in one, little bit like the Saracen Mameluke and the Cuman Kipchak.
These are top civs of Mesoamerica, although I do not know about the Purepecha.
Yes, I think that a Mesoamerican DLC has the most highly priority, as the two Americas have really come up short so far.
Africa is already integrated with North Africa, although Subsaharan Africa is not yet covered either. East Asia should be expanded, because we have a huge population density and a wide variety of cultures there.
The Purepecha are often better know as the Tarscans. They lived west of the Aztecs.
They were the third largest empire in the Americas after the Incas and the Aztecs.
In a game about empires, they are one of the must have civilization.
If you want I can talk more about them, west Mesoamerica is very fascinating because they developed so differently from the rest of Mesoamerica.
Great video! Thanks for posting it. I’ve seen it before and it got me interested in this largely ignored civilization. The Tarascans were the only ones who could beat back the Aztecs (without external help like the Tlaxcaltecs who were allied with the Conquistadores). It was the Tarascan Empire that blocked the Aztec expansion into western Mesoamerica. Under the reign of Emperor Axayácatl, the Aztecs launched an invasion (1479-1480) into the Tarascan Empire (more or less the current state of Michoacán). The Tarascans were the only people in Mesoamerica that developed metalworking, enabling them to make copper weapons. It was here that the 25,000-strong Aztec invasion force was ambushed and defeated by 40,000 Tarascan warriors. According to chronicler Diego Durán (cited by Hugh Thomas in “The Conquest of Mexico”) the Aztecs “fell like flies into water”. Decades later, during the Spanish Conquest of Mexico, Aztec Emperor Cuitlahuac in his desperation asked his enemies, the Tarascans, for help in fighting the Spanish Conquistadores. The Tarascan cazonci (monarch) Zuanga rejected the request and you know the rest of the story. I would love to see a Tarascan campaign.
And surprisingly there are those who argue that Purepecha is offensive. Some would say that Mexica is the proper name for the Aztecs. I’m Mexican and I don’t mind what you call them . In any case it is a fascinating Mesoamerican culture. You can read more about the Tarascan/Purepecha debate in this book (in Spanish):
¿Tarascos o Purepecha ? Voces sobre antiguas y nuevas discusiones en torno al gentilicio michoacano. Pedro MárquezJoaquín. (Editor).
Weird that this map doesn’t show the Purepecha or their capital city Tzinzunzan
Also it’s kinda weird and a bit misleading that it shows a lot of empires that weren’t contemporary, the Olmecs were from antiquity and the Aztecs were from the very late middle ages (sorry for the European time divisions, just using them for clarity for those not familiar with the Mesoamerican ones)
I think the problem with the Toltecs is that we don’t really know that much about them, a lot of it is just based on myths by the Aztecs that basically worshiped them way after their fall
So the Aztecs are contemporary and fit well into the game although they represent the latest time period in the game the Early modern period. I would further like to point out, that the Mayans are in the game, although their best times is before and at the beginning of the time frame from this game.
. In any case it is a fascinating Mesoamerican culture. You can read more about the Tarascan/Purepecha debate in this book (in Spanish):