What about the battle of Ollantaytambo or La Noche Triste? Or the Arauco war, or the great Puebloan revolt?
What about them? All these rebellions were squished after a week
Itâs possible no doubt but not if they are 10 times weaker. Thatâs what some people here want.
Canoes have to get one shot by naval cannons!!11!!1
Do even fisher boats get one shot at the moment?
I made this concept before I played the beta
I think the foot soldiers are the easy part. Still itâs a bit harder with the AoE4 armour system than the AoE3 resistance system.
If you have 2x the units with half the attack than +1 armour makes you better against them compared to if it was just one stronger unit.
But than we also have the effect that there is a minimal damage of 1.
American Concept
My idea is that they are designed to fight other Native Americans in the campaigns but are still balanced to fight all other civilisations in multiplayer.
Itâs obviously not going to be perfectly realistic but neither are the other civilisations.
In Feudal Age their units are relatively equal to the Eurasian ones but over the Ages the leak of Blacksmith upgrades makes them weaker. They only get 1 weapon and 1 armour upgrade instead of 3.
They leak strong units like Knights, Man-at-Arms or Crossbows. They have cheap but weak units though. Some units cost half population but not all. That means two Native American units are as strong as one Eurasian one on average. Crazy things like a 10 to 1 ratio is just impossible in gameplay. There is a reason why the Zerglings in Starcraft 2 are the fastest unit, they have to reach the enemy before dying. We canât let infantry run faster than cavalry.
I also donât have a good concept for naval yet. I have too see how naval gameplay actually develops in AoE4.
Town Centre
Native Villager
- A bit less attack and hitopints than Eurasian Villager
- Gathers faster from hunt and berries
Scout
- Fast Infantry unit
- View rage increases when idle (like Oracle from AoM but faster)
Barracks
American Spearman
- Age 2
- Less Armour, Hitpoints and Attack than Eurasian Equivalent
- 0.5 population
- Food and Wood
Warrior
- Age 3
- Man-at-Arms but without armour
- Food and Gold
Shock Infantry
- Age 2
- Even fast but slower than Cavalry
- Like AoE2 Eagle Warrior of AoE3 Coyote Runner
- Attack bonus against Archers
- Decent Ranged Armour
- Food and Gold
Acts as a Horseman replacement. There is no replacement for the Knight.
Archery Range
American Bowman
- Age 2
- Less Armour, Hitpoints, Attack and Range than Eurasian Bowman
- 0.5 Population
- Food and Wood
Javelin Thrower
- Age 3
- Short range ranged unit
- Stronger attack than Bowman
- Attack bonus against cavalry
- Wood and Gold
Slinger
- Age 3
- Lower damage and range than American Bowman
- Fast rate of fire
- 0.5 population
- Minimal damage of 2 instead of 1
- Wood and Gold
Itâs role is to counter heavy slow units. They donât do much damage but because they always to at last 2 damage instead of the usual 1. This way they can counter heavy units in large numbers.
Siege units
Ram
- Cheaper but less armoured than Eurasian Ram
Siege Tower
- Slower than Eurasian Siege Tower because no wheels
Temple
Priest
- Heals allies
- Carries Relics
Siege Arrow
- Age 4
- Archer with a giant bow
- Destroys Buildings and Siege units at high range
- Wood and Gold
Technologies
- Enable Ram and Siege Tower (Age 2)
- Faster Infantry (Age 3)
- Batch training (Age 3) like AoE3
- Armour and Weapon upgrade (Age 4)
Aztecs
Aggressive civilisation. They have fast and hard hitting Elite units but can also overwhelm the enemy with numbers.
Unique Units
Jaguar Warrior
- Replaces Warrior but more expensive
- +1 Hitpoint for each allied Jaguar Warrior in the area (limit increases with ever upgrade)
Eagle Warrior
- Replaces Javelin but more expensive
- As fast as Shock Infantry
Warrior Priest
- Replaces normal Priest
- Sacrifices an allied unit to boots other allied units in the area
- Can fight
Civilisation Bonuses
- Slinger available in Age 2
Unique Technologies
- Gives you gold for each unit a Jaguar of Eagle Warrior kills (Age 4)
- Reduces the cost of all units besides Jaguar and Eagle Warrior (Age 3 and Age 4)
Inca
The Inca donât have strong units but they have strong defences and are good at delaying and weakening the enemies. They are bad at direct confrontations.
They have a huge micro potential in fight if you want to spread out the poison damage and slowdown effect.
Unique Units
Jungle Bowman
- Replaces American Archer but has same base attack
- 1 population and also more expensive
- Does +50% poison damage over time that ignores armour
- Poison damage doesnât stack
Bolas Warrior
- Age 3
- Additional Unit
- Slows down enemy units, especially cavalry
- Bonus damage against cavalry
- Food and Gold
Unique Buildings
Kancha House
- Twice the population and cost of regular house
- Can garrison villagers (No attack)
Tambo
- Placed on Gold or Stone mines
- Doesnât block them
- Station villagers to mine
- Does have an attack when villagers are stationed
Unique Technologies
- Additional attack damage upgrade for all units (Still less than Blacksmith) (Age 3)
- Increase of poison damage (but also time) to +75% and +100% (Age 3 and Age 4)
- Bolas Warriors slow down AoE (Age 4)
- Units can be stationed in production buildings but not attack (Age 3)
Other potential Civilisations
Maya
- Economic focus
Zapotec
- Stealth focus
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Well, the Arauco war resulted in a victory for the Mapuche, until the Spanish reconquered them 112 years later, I think that is more than a week. (Arauco War - Wikipedia)
The Great Puebloan Revolt accomplished most of its goals, and managed to expel the spaniards for 12 years. (Pueblo Revolt - Wikipedia)
La Noche Triste was an attack that destroyed 2/3 of Cortezâs force during their conquest of the Aztec empire. It was not a rebellion.
The Battle of Ollantaytambo was an Incan defense of Ollantaytambo which managed to successfully defeated an combined Spanish native force of about equal number. It was part of the Great Incan Revolt, which lasted in some form from 1536-1572, that is 36 years. (Manco Inca Yupanqui - Wikipedia, Neo-Inca State - Wikipedia)
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Possibly,but only the best known:Aztecs,Mayans, IncasâŠI donât think they put more,being that aoe 4 will be more asymmetrical than aoe 2âŠand that they are like their versions of aoe 3âŠ
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Actually no. Same number of swordsman with heavy armour and shields should beat pure pike man irl also. Just look at Roman legions vs Greece or Spanish Rodeleros. Problem is that they are very vulnerable to cavalry and Pikes works with gunpowder weapons very well.
(talking about pikes not spears and halberds)
You never tryed to charge a wall of pike?
Sure 1 swormen can beat 1 pike men, but try to kill the same pikeman, when there is a few row of pikeman behind him.
You will impalling your self in a few pike, and wonât be able to advance any more.
You will become literaly a meat wall for your enemy, has your ally try to push you, to make you advance.
Your ally will trample you, has they also impalle their self on you own pike, that cross your body.
Donât worry, you will survive, until you bleed to deaf.
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No with heavy armour and large shields you would close up and finish them off eventually. Once again just look at romans. It was the fire of harquebuses in combination with pikes which prevailed thatâs why massed pikes were not really a winning strategy before just anti cav tactic. (since ancient Greeks)
You do realize this would be a very hard feat, and that pikemen were also heavily armored right?
Its actually a question of right position.
Pikemen clearly are a defensive build vs other melee in narrow positions
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Much smaller spanish forces destroyed them after 90% of the population died to smallpox and other diseases. The aztecs actually drove off the first spanish settlement. (didnât help that it coincided with a religious omen)
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He canât answer no more, fewer my-geographical-place-is-better-than-yours fans by the day
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They were able to put a fight but you are forgetting about very important thing. The same thing that most people forget when they talk about colonial wars. Number of european forces and intensity of combat. Oh and if there was any reason to conquer. Just because they were able to put a fight doesnât mean they were strong and could go toe to toe with europeans countries. Almost all colonial wars have 1 thing in common. Small number of european forces fight against huge number of local troops, usually in unfamiliar terrain and with low resources. It worked like that in South America, Central America, North America, Africa and Asia.
While I will agree that meso american civs are interesting but itâs impossible to make them historicaly acuurate in this game. They wouldnât stand a chance against any current in-game civ. Technological gap was just way too big.
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Yes, but it will be the challenge for AoE team to figure out and address, as accurate as possible, the origins, achievements and legacies of Native Americans from stone age to gunpowder epochs, in the upcoming AoE IV. That how far their ancestoral origins streched in the Americas and what their cultural or traditional legacies they had in their pass. Because either most of the ancient sources on them maybe lost and few the sources left will be rare.
tbh tech gap isnât really significant until late imperial when europeans had gunpowder. Even during colonial settling of the continents which is like late imperial in aoe4, similar number combatants werenât that onesided, native population was decimated mostly due to disease, superstition and infighting as opposed to technological superiority. It wasnât until like the expansion of the USA when they had actual gunpowder/machine guns instead of muskets that took like 60 seconds to reload where natives were truely outmatched.
The game is an abstraction anyways, its not like trebuchetâs and battering rams knocked down castles and whole town centers irl.
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Itâs difficult because the Americas were largely still in the Neolithic Age
Maybe in some alternative timeline where the Vikings successfully settled Vineland and traded technology (Iron smelting, forging, shipbuilding, cartography, horses, the wheel, etc.
Neolithic? This thread is full of infantilizing and anachronism. If we look at an early Medieval native American civilization, like the Mississippian People. You have a huge mega city called Cahokia, larger than London at the time. Giant forts with palisade walls. A massive trade network bringing Yaupon tea up from Louisiana, and as far as Florida. A religious powerhouse of a nation which could have menaced any contemporary European medieval army.
Scrolling through here I see people comparing canoes to galleons! Galleons were post medieval ships! This is like comparing Galleons to Aircraft Carries! Believe it or not, AOE2 is not historically accurate, and cherry picks technology and military tradition from disparate timelines and locations for fun. We could spend all day doing the same with native American civs and come up with some really cool civs.
At the end of the day, Native Americans built empires. TRUE empires. This game can include them, and Iâm sure the devs can make it work.
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Ever heard of Thermopylae? Guess what the Spartans usedâŠSpears!
With the right management, itâs actually possible to defeat a technological advanced foe.
Best example would be Battle of Isandlwana from year 1879, where Zulu did defeat the British Empire.
With spears and shields vs way advanced than Spanish equipment 1520. British cavalry, guns and artillery from year 1879.
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Speaking as a Central American who should feel identified by having Native American units⊠accuracy wouldnât be fun or balanced. Historically, our asses got handed to us when the Spanish arrived. Itâd be like playing an AoE match but you canât move beyond Feudal and your enemy is late Imperial. In AoE II, having the slightest chance of beating any European civ as Aztecs, Mayans or Incas has always felt too disconnected from reality to me. Even if AoE doesnât take itself seriously, there are limits, same way itâs not right to see WWII tanks in there.
Iâm fine with AoE IV not having Central/South American civs because their military tech was ages behind. Perhaps they could be playable in specific campaigns only, but not skirmish. Iâm not as familiarized with the North American natives so I canât speak about that. I think AoE III did a great job with them.
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