Honestly, what kind of gameplay systems are in place matters very little for this topic, imho. The issue is about the names and how these fantasy labels are front and centre in a game that’s supposedly historic. The names themselves have already been confirmed, so we have all the info necessary to discuss them.
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That poll has a shocking amount of support for the variant civ names. From Reddit and the forums, it’s sounds like it’s the worst thing since Hitler.
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Let’s not over dramaticise please. They should do better.
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Please don’t compare this with Hitler. You are demeaning the sufferings of millions.
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The negative sentiment is winning the poll, just not by an overwhelming margin like here.
The real problem is that the civ known as “Jade Empire” is so ambiguous that it is not known what they are referring to. People are AFRAID that they will do something like the Chinese from Age of Mythology. Especially since people associate “Jade Emperor” with the supreme god of Chinese mythology.
The name would be secondary, but the speculation that the name creates is what is alarming almost everyone, “the speculation”.
For my part, I will wait calmly for the DLC. The names don’t seem bad to me, as long as they represent a civ that has historical material faithful to its historical simile, its okay. But, since I still don’t know what the final product of the name “Jade Empire” will be, I simply won’t give a definitive opinion to the Poll.
Sorry, not meaning to be demeaning. I couldn’t think of anything else as a terrible hyperbolic comparison. Half the posts online I read about civ names people make it sounds like the world is ending and the devs should be ashamed of themselves.
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…can you imagine in a historical game based on maybe the most well known part of history, a faction name literally tells you nothing about the faction?
Nobody can infer what the “Empire of Jade” could be about, from any source of information. Not even the Chinese. That is already a problem.
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The builders’ descriptions of Chinese buildings and units are all wrong, the models are crude and fanciful. It’s hard for me to imagine what will happen next in the Emerald Empire. On the contrary, buildings and units in other countries are very detailed and elaborate.
Renaming ideas based on the approach of taking something which might seem sufficiently similar but still distinct enough to be a separate civ. Disclaimer that I have no idea how the civs are designed.
Jeanne d’Arc → Kingdom of Jerusalem or Burgundians (change hero unit to somebody else if it is Burgundian, like Charles the Bold e.g. or Godfrey of Bouillon in the case of the Kingdom of Jerusalem)
Sultan’s Army → Mamluk Sultanate
Empire of Jade → Jurchen or Tanguts
Order of the Dragon → Teutonic Order or Swiss
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I want to mention that I prefer what seems to be “full” civs than subcivs. It seems to me from the little I know that Japanese and co. will be way more distinct than those subcivs.
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Totally agree! Listening to professional players will only ruin the game. They don’t seem to care about the history and content of the game. Like AOE 2’s little tree mod, which essentially destroys the visual look of the game, to AOE 4, Develops a disproportion, too small a house and too large a weapon, This leads directly to the inability of AoE 4 to create an immersive historical scene as it did before. There is also mandatory era binding for helmet and hat colors (so you see all kinds of leather plate armor and metallic cloth hats). Have spearmen from all factions use European billhook in an attempt to bring the most intolerable setting of AOE 2 to AOE 4. ( Aoe2 is still the commonly used European military model today, as some people say they are concerned that they may not be able to distinguish unit types), Even almost canceled the cavalry steering frame, because some people feel that the operation is not smooth, this is still in the campaign. These stupid settings are almost all designed to satisfy the competitive players.
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Its never ending debate from small part of playerbase who are extremely loud and they’ve their own vision how things go. If that vision is not met with 100% accuracy then its “wrong and broken” and most of the time their own accuracy on historic facts is not even accurate xD
Ppl are way overdramatic over nothing. Sure Jade empire or jeanne as civ names is something like hmm why. Ok should say can we have different names? But the uproar over this is way too silly.
And come with the story that they only listen to professional players and that they are the endemic evil.
They listen to them where they need to listen to them, just as they listen to content creators with a casual audience as well as a good part of the community.
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I agree, please Devs change the names, they are kind of awful… They just do not make sense.
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The ship sailed on “overdramatising” when people went overboard attacking the devs for some poor naming choices.
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Can’t wait for future variation civs!
English: Camelot
Malians: Mansa’s army
Rus: Ivan the Terrible
Delhi Sultanate: Order of Assassins
I hope they will have cool and awesome names like these!!!
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Unironically would love this, I still don’t understand the outrage over the naming conventions! The game has history as a basis, but it will always be a “fantasy” since a lot of the civ matchups across biomes have no precedent.
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There is a big difference in a historical game having “liberties” and straight up including fantasy elements that create a dissonance with the rest of the game. Yes, the French and the Chinese never fought (in the middle ages), but limiting who can fight who for the sake of accuracy would hurt the game.
What else would hurt the game? Having a faction led by the Jade Emperor, a god from Chinese mythology, not a guy who ever existed. A historical game has to stick to history as much as possible while not hurting gameplay. Random fantasy elements hurt such games.
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No one knows what is included with the variants, at best we know order of the dragon has an armor change and the French variant has a hero unit. We know that the landmarks may have the same appearance. There is no other public information! If someone were showing me in game documentation that stated something fantastical like empire of jade having a jade emperor unit I would get it. But this outrage is manufactured.
There isn’t enough information present to even form an argument!
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