Wow as usual the cop showed up just in time, narrowly missing the accusation of “someone only picks on historical accuracies in AOE4”.
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I didn’t say you wanted 1:1. I asked you question “why don’t devs copy paste everything 1:1?”
Why shall I answer the question?
Which part of this entire discussion, or the stuff I linked to, has anything to do with 1:1 copy paste?
Is some more relevant name rather than “Empire of Jade” a 1:1 copy paste?
Do we have to go for 1:1 copy paste to find a sliiiiiiiiiiiiiightly more realistic option than “Empire of Jade”, very wrong combinations of equipments, or purely made-up models/names?
First ask yourself why they don’t call the units space marines but rather 1:1 copy paste spearmen or knights, or why they don’t give the units laser guns but rather 1:1 copy paste crossbows, as you brought up that term.
BTW, someone may see no difference between them of course.
The dropdown was not an actual image from the game, but something he created, the flags in the image were also something he made up, so we don’t know exactly how it will appear.
You don’t really lose anything when you answer that question. Do you?
We don’t know all the details of variant civs yet and how they’re presented in game, but Empire of Jade is actually quite fitting name for China. Jade has deep roots in chinese history and playing big part with their rulers. Sure its not necessary real name used by geological location on map, but it still fits quite well. For example Han dynasty rulers thought Jade would give them immortality so the importance of jade is very high in historical china
Jeanne for example would make sense if its represented “french led by Jeanne d’arc”
Order of dragons is completely legit part of HRE so yeah.
Army of sultans. I got no idea, because Im not familiar with this section of history at all.
So when thinking about it these names are just completely fine. Top of that AOE4 is a game which goals is to be entertainment and masses don’t really care about names.
I was actually going to reply to them, but I had to settle my daughter. That said, would be a complete waste of time in defense of someone who can’t do anything but twist words and call names 
Two of those are my points and the third has nothing to do with what I said. What is wrong with you?
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I’m sorry, I don’t understand the question. At what point did I say they had anything to do with you? I intentionally kept the quotes unattributed, because the people posting them didn’t matter to the fun checklist I was making.
I think right now you should ask me to read a historical textbook to complete that achievement list.
According to my own experience, anyone throwing out the “this is a game not a historical simulator” starter pack (when nobody asked for a historical simulator; and believe me, they ALL start with the same argument) has no intention of good faith discussion. I tried to argue with them before but then I found it a complete waste of time. If you have time to waste you can look into my own topics that I linked to.
So I just tried to avoid such arguments entirely with a million disclaimers
But it seems not to work.
Then you should support Empire of Rice as well.
That IS the problem.
There are direct, straightforward names at hand like Ayyubids or Mamluks. That takes even less efforts. We only have 14 different civs now and it is FAR from using up all the relevant names so that you have to make things up. There is no need to mix totally fantasy-like names with real ones (1:1 copy pasted from reality BTW).
I don’t know if it feels so painful to just use those names.
A major part of that entertainment is its historical reference (disclaimer: this is not accuracy or 1:1 copy paste).
Think about it. The AOE series as RTS have always been poorer in its mechanics, controls and competitiveness compared to more “mainstream” RTS like the blizzard ones with fantasy settings. Why do you think they still have a place?
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Unlike your poor attempt at strawmanning a whole argument by misrepresenting ideas as well as who said what, the guy you are actually trying to direct this towards does a good job at summarizing your nonsense.
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I’m not surprised you think that way.
That said, quoting peoples’ words is in no way a strawman, and the greater context of the entire post(s) (though the third quote is, in fact, someone’s entire post) does nothing to change the meaning of the parts I quoted.
The meaning of being wrong, surely?
I stand by the fact that these developers have no inkling of an idea of what they are doing with this game. And I also stand by the fact that they have a questionable understanding of history.
I however, in no way hold any beliefs over political agendas having any connection to any of this.
Don’t mention my arguments and statements in vain again.
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I never said you didn’t.
I never said you did. I actually appreciated you, earlier on, distancing yourself from such posts.
I’ll do what I want, so long as I think it’s appropriate and I’m following the same rules and being held to the same standards everyone else is. But that’s a bit rich from someone who chased up a post (that didn’t tag them, which is something I’ve been very careful to limit) because they thought I was misattributing something to them, and despite my explicit clarifications to the opposite, continued to have a go.
But also, importantly, I’m not doing what you think I’m doing. I was just making a lighthearted checklist of “the other side”, as it were. Especially as 'Blade said he missed any such statements, when I was posting from mobile and couldn’t manage referencing things properly. You’re the one who took it tens kinds of the wrong way.
You should be at the very least able to see that quoting three things, two thirds of which belongs to an individual is very suggestive at misrepresenting that individuals thoughts.
Especially when you are jumbling two entirely different groups of thought together. It is inappropriate and achieves nothing but misrepresent everything involved, in addition to honestly being insulting.
The people ranting on about political agendas are insane and I want nothing to do with them.
If I singled out any individual by name, you might have a point. I can see how you think this, but the pain about perspective is apparently it’s fine and justifiable when you see others do it to me. So I don’t really have much sympathy consider the pains I took to anonymise the quote, and your position on it being done to me / whoever else happens to be on “the other side” of you in an argument.
It’s not like I was angling for some mod action ('Blade doesn’t have the badge anymore, unless it’s invisible these days). I was copying the cutesy checklist the other guy was doing, albeit I was actually using direct quotes of things I found objectionable, instead of what he was doing, by rewording what others were saying.
In my mind, rewording the statements would’ve been even worse. Quoting them would’ve tagged the posters, which again, wasn’t the aim. The point was twofold. To demonstrate that such statements exist (because 'Blade claimed people claiming such were being overly dramatic), and to mimic the list thing. I thought it was pretty low-stakes humour myself, it’s not like it was a huge thing until you made it one.
I would like to see the word “Mamluk” somewhere, if not the variant name, then the name of their heavy cav. Also, to repeat what everyone is saying, names like Ming Dynasty or Mamlik Sultanate sound more appealing than Jade’s clubhouse or leader’s army. (Sultan basically means leader in Arabic.)
My big thing is that I would really love for all the variants to be something you can point to on a map. Even if it is a duchy within the HRE or a smaller sultanate within the Abbasid.
It seems someone even wanted to push it further than I see fit:
The reason the team is going all out is because it knows that it has a responsibility, not to necessarily portray history accurately, but authentically – Age of Empires 4 will invariably end up introducing new areas of history to investigate for some of the playerbase. “I love that responsibility. I want that responsibility. I want Age of Empires 4 to be a trusted source of history. I think we can do that justice; I would be over the moon if people were like, ‘man, this is legit!’ because there’s been some shaky history in the previous Age of Empires games,” laughs Isgreen. “Age of Empires 4 is very much a celebration of all of history – not just the wars and the people, but the technology and spirituality too. We’ve gone to great lengths to make sure that our history is accurate to the places.”
Never has the name “Empire of Jade” been used to any Chinese faction.
None of the Chinese factions were iconic for jade. Yes they used it. But just like paper or rice. Not a single Chinese political faction was addressed like “Empire of Rice”.
It does not even have a literary or poetic usage.
You cannot find any serious sources using such a name.
Unlike “Order of the Dragon” which immediately tells you some references to the House of Luxembourg or Hungary with a list of potential features one can quickly come up with, nobody in the entire community, Chinese or not, pro or not, historical nerd or not, has any idea of what “Empire of Jade” refers to, or how it could be represented.
MAN, THIS IS NOT LEGIT.
Hopefully they don’t end up contradicting themselves with such nonsense names.
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And I’d like to ask Mr. Isgreen where is the compendium.
At any point I have not stated any of those things u listed.
Why don’t you ask yourself is Rice and Jade equal in terms of cultural importance to the chinese civilization?
Sure rice was very important food source for asian ppl, but it doesn’t hold similar level of importance as Jade so it would make LESS sense than Jade.
If you look up the importance of jade then you might see the name “empire of jade” in bit more reasonable.
But my point of me saying what I said was that there could be reasonable historical reason why its named army of sultan. Which I cant pinpoint because Im not familiar with history of middle east
So even if the name was Ayyubids or Mamluks I would be completely clueless about them and after quickly checking mamluk means “slave” so its quite controversial.
There is nothing wrong saying this, but reality isn’t this. Majority of players do not care about this and are not hung up with the names as those who belong to same group as you. Sadly you’re minority and vast majority only care if game is fun to play and entertain them those all gameplay systems etc take priority over anything else.
I cant speak for AOE2 or 3 (not played them recently enough or even competitively) so I speak only from AOE4 perspective and WC / SC
I wouldn’t say its poorer in mechanics, but entirely different type of RTS.
The reason why AOE has place isn’t just because they do more historic accurate stuff, no. Yes it can play a part to attract your type of players, but vast majority prioritize the gameplay and systems under it.
You can make game out of eating piles of shit and if gameplay loop and systems are entertaining and fun ppl will play. AOE4 is dumped down in terms of micro requirements and appeal on audience that is less into microing and more into spamming units.
This is a really good quote, thanks for bringing it back to light. I didn’t have access to the forums while I was at work, so I have been trying to fight the good fight on reddit and discord, and there is a lot of people who tried to claim that Age of Empires 4 had NO commitment to historical accuracy, and I had remembered that they made that promise to be better on portraying history this time around, but couldn’t remember the source.
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